Coordinate Change & Gravity: A Schwazschild Metric Analysis

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Schwarzschild metric, its derivation, and implications regarding gravity and coordinate systems. Participants explore the nature of solutions to the Einstein field equations, particularly in the context of flat spacetime and its relationship to the Schwarzschild solution.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Schwarzschild metric is derived from spherical symmetry and solves the field equations in vacuum.
  • Others propose that the Schwarzschild solution represents a one-parameter family of solutions, with the Minkowski solution emerging when the parameter M is set to zero.
  • There is a question about whether the flat metric is a solution or if changing coordinates induces gravity, with some suggesting that setting M to zero results in a flat metric where curvature and gravity are absent.
  • One participant explains that the Einstein field equations have multiple solutions based on chosen boundary conditions, leading to different spacetime geometries, including flat spacetime as a solution when empty space is considered.
  • Another participant points out that flat spacetime is not the only vacuum solution, indicating a potential misunderstanding in interpreting "empty space everywhere."
  • There is a clarification regarding the wording used about boundary conditions, with acknowledgment of carelessness in expression without altering the underlying concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of flat spacetime and its relation to vacuum solutions, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a consensus on the implications of coordinate changes and gravity.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of interpreting boundary conditions in the context of general relativity and the nuances of different coordinate systems in describing spacetime geometries.

jk22
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What I understood is that The Schwazschild metric is obtained by setting spherical symmetry in the metric and solves the field equation in vacuum.

But is the flat metric a solution too, or does it mean that changing the coordinates induces gravity ?
 
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The Schwarzschild solution is not a single solution. It is in fact a one parameter family of solutions. If the parameter M is zero you get the Minkowski solution.
 
jk22 said:
But is the flat metric a solution too, or does it mean that changing the coordinates induces gravity ?
If you set M to 0 then you get a flat metric. All of the curvature goes to zero. So there is no gravity induced, it is just spherical coordinates in flat spacetime.
 
jk22 said:
But is the flat metric a solution too, or does it mean that changing the coordinates induces gravity ?
The Einstein field equations are differential equations, so they have multiple solutions depending on the boundary conditions that we choose. The solution will be a metric tensor that solves the field equations consistent with the particular boundary conditions we've chosen; it determines a particular spacetime geometry.

Flat spacetime is the geometry we get when we choose empty space everywhere as the boundary condition. We can write this solution in many different coordinate systems; for example Minkowski ##ds^2=-dt^2+dx^2+dy^2+dz^2## and polar ##ds^2=-dt^2+dr^2+r^2(d\theta^2+\sin^2\theta{d}\phi^2)## are two different ways of writing the metric tensor for flat spacetime. No matter what coordinates we choose, the curvature tensors will come out zero, there will be no gravity.

Schwarzschild spacetime is another geometry, the one we get when we choose a spherically symmetric mass distribution as the solution. Again, we can write the metric tensor for that spacetime in many different coordinate systems: Schwarzschild coordinates (of course, and it is unfortunate that we use his name both for the spacetime he discovered and for the coordinates he used to describe it - they're different things), or Kruskal, or Painleve, or ... but no matter which we choose, the gravitational effects calculated from the curvature tensors will be the same.

Other choices for the distribution of stress energy yield yet other spacetimes. Again, the gravitational effects in different spacetimes will be different, but they won't change with our choice of coordinates.
 
Nugatory said:
Flat spacetime is the geometry we get when we choose empty space everywhere as the boundary condition.
Am I missing something? I would interpret "empty space everywhere" to mean that you are looking for vacuum solutions. But flat space-time is not the only vacuum solution.
 
jbriggs444 said:
Am I missing something? I would interpret "empty space everywhere" to mean that you are looking for vacuum solutions. But flat space-time is not the only vacuum solution.
Not missing anything, I'm just being a bit careless about the wording around a non-critical point.
 
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