Cosmic microwave background and a reference frame

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of establishing a local reference frame that is motionless with respect to the cosmic microwave background (CMB) using a fleet of spaceships equipped with differential microwave radiometers. The conversation explores whether this reference frame could be considered inertial, particularly in the context of general relativity (GR).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Barbara Da Vinci questions whether the data from the radiometers could establish a local reference frame that is motionless with respect to the CMB and whether this frame could be inertial.
  • One participant asserts that if such a reference frame exists, it may not necessarily be inertial due to the nature of reference frames in general relativity.
  • Another participant suggests that a frame coinciding with the local free-falling frame could be considered inertial, but notes the unlikelihood of this occurring due to the irregular distribution of matter in the universe.
  • A clarification is provided regarding the term "FF frame," which stands for "local free falling," indicating a frame centered on an inertial observer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the proposed reference frame could be considered inertial, with some suggesting conditions under which it might be, while others highlight the complexities involved. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of the reference frame.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on the implications of general relativity for inertial frames and the influence of local matter distribution on the establishment of such frames, but does not resolve these complexities.

BarbaraDav
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Dear Friends

A fleet of spaceships is given, each equipped with a differential microwave radiometer,
just like COBE was, whose detectors are antipodeanly pointing (this way one should catch
blue shifted radiation and the other one red shifted). Could their acquisitions be used to
establish a reference frame locally (!) motionless respect the cosmic microwave background ?
Supposing a such reference frame does exist, is there any reason to think it's an inertial one ?

Best wishes.

Barbara Da Vinci
Rome
 
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BarbaraDav said:
A fleet of spaceships is given, each equipped with a differential microwave radiometer,
just like COBE was, whose detectors are antipodeanly pointing (this way one should catch
blue shifted radiation and the other one red shifted). Could their acquisitions be used to
establish a reference frame locally (!) motionless respect the cosmic microwave background ?
Yes.
BarbaraDav said:
Supposing a such reference frame does exist, is there any reason to think it's an inertial one ?
Well, in GR the idea of inertial and non-inertial reference frames doesn't really exist any more.
 
is there any reason to think it's an inertial one ?
Interesting. The nearest thing to an inertial frame in GR is a freely-falling frame. If one of your ships should adjust itself to be stationary in the CBR frame, and can maintain that without using its engines then for that ship the CBR frame may be inertial.

In other words, if the CBR frame coincides with the local FF frame, then it is inertial. Because of the irregular distribution of matter in the local universe, it's not likely to happen. Perhaps in one of the great voids where all matter is very, very far away, this coincidence would be more likely.
 
Please, what's "FF frame" ?
 
local FF = "local free falling" (i.e. a local frame centered on an inertial observer)
 
I see. Thanks !
 

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