Cosmological Questions and Their Degenerate Answers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around various cosmological questions and the implications of different theoretical frameworks in understanding the universe. Topics include the nature of space and gravity, the expansion of the universe, the speed of light, and the concept of dark matter. Participants explore these ideas through speculative reasoning and critique existing theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that photons could be considered to carry gravitational mass, suggesting an alternative to the curvature of space as an explanation for gravitational effects.
  • There is a contention regarding the interpretation of the universe's expansion, with some arguing that it could be viewed as galaxies moving in a fixed background, raising questions about what space is expanding into.
  • One participant presents a theory that posits matter and energy have always existed, challenging the notion of a beginning to the universe and suggesting this resolves some issues with the Big Bang theory.
  • Concerns are raised about the definition of gravity and its implications, particularly regarding its universal attraction and the nature of its force.
  • Some participants discuss the concept of dark matter and propose alternatives like Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND) or the idea of gravity becoming repulsive at large distances.
  • There is debate about the implications of the speed of light as a limit, with some suggesting that this assumption may restrict understanding of undiscovered phenomena.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some agreeing on the flaws in current theories while others challenge these perspectives. There is no consensus on the interpretations of space, gravity, or the expansion of the universe, indicating a contested discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions and limitations in the current understanding of cosmological concepts, including the nature of space, the definition of gravity, and the implications of the speed of light. These discussions reflect ongoing uncertainties in the field.

  • #31
selfAdjoint said:
I went to your site, and followed on to your notes. And as I suspected from your comment about any cosmology textbook, the relevant passage includes developing the restricted metrics for various cosmological cases by regarding spacetime as a three dimensional manifold M cross the real line for time : M \times R^1, and then embedding M in four dimensional euclidean space M \subset R^4. This is PURELY NOTATIONAL. You are not intended to conclude that Peebles or any other author is asserting that space is separated from time and embedded in a higher dimensional euclian space like that. The form M \times R^1 is already an idealization of full spacetime for the limited purposes of cosmology, and the rest is just a device for exploring the shape of space within this idealization.

I do not understand what do you mean. I am just saying that at some fixed time one needs a fourth spatial dimension to have (visulaize) the curvature of "space".
Note that time comes in picture when we talk about the dynamics. One can always study the universe at some fixed time.

Most of the people think that curvature "k" which comes in cosmology is the curvature of "space-time". However, this is not trure, this is the curvature of spatial section.
 
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  • #32
cosmoboy said:
I do not understand what do you mean. I am just saying that at some fixed time one needs a fourth spatial dimension to have (visulaize) the curvature of "space".

For some of us, "have" doesn't equal "visualize". The curvature of spacetime, (yes it curves in the general theory, as shown by, e.g. the Schwartzschild metric where t is nonlinear along with the space coordinates) is no less visualizable than is curvature in R4. The GR pseudo-Riemannian curvature is intrinsic and doesn't need an enveloping space.

Note that time comes in picture when we talk about the dynamics. One can always study the universe at some fixed time.

Different observers will orient differently toward spacelike and timelike. There is no one favored way to dissect the local neighborhood into space and time, much less the whole universe. I repeat that the M X R1 model is an idealization, which is not in any way the full correct state of GR but a useful false model for discussion of limited kinds of things - cosmological things.

Most of the people think that curvature "k" which comes in cosmology is the curvature of "space-time". However, this is not trure, this is the curvature of spatial section.

In this cosmological model, but not in general.
 
  • #33
misskitty said:
So if the fourth dimension isn't time in this case; what is it? I'm just breaking into GR so I haven't even hit special relativity yet.

Sidenote: someone please tell me what a tachyon is?

It may be a bit advanced, but tachons are discussed in the sci.physics.faq in a couple of places. The first is probably more readable, and is about FTL and relativity in general, the second is a little more advanced

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/FTL.html
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/ParticleAndNuclear/tachyons.html

Basically tachyons are hypothetical particles that always travel faster than light. Some interesting mathematical gymnasitics is required to achieve this - tachyons wind up with real energies and momenta, but an imaginary rest mass.
 

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