Could fluorescence quenching be used for making 3D images?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of using fluorescence quenching to create dynamic 3D images, particularly through the manipulation of chloride ion concentrations in a quinine solution. Participants explore the potential for a programmable medium that could present high-resolution images using laser illumination.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that controlling chloride ion concentrations in a solution could allow for selective fluorescence when illuminated by a violet laser.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the initial inquiry and asks for specifics regarding the intended experiment or measurement.
  • A participant expresses interest in creating a programmable medium for dynamic 3D forms, noting the challenge of controlling concentration gradients to achieve recognizable images.
  • Concerns are raised about the complexity and indirect nature of the proposed method, with suggestions for alternative imaging techniques that are more straightforward.
  • One participant highlights the necessity of producing both opaque and bright regions to create a proper 3D image, indicating that without dark surfaces, the image fidelity would be compromised.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the feasibility of using fluorescence quenching for 3D imaging. There are competing views regarding the practicality and effectiveness of the proposed method versus alternative imaging techniques.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the ability to control concentration gradients in solutions and the implications this has for generating recognizable images. The discussion also touches on the limitations of current methods and the need for both light-emitting and light-absorbing regions in 3D imaging.

miraiw
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Looking at the image from this wikipedia article, it looks like there's a selective fluorescing of the quinine dependent on the presence of chrolide ions in the solution.

If the concentration of chloride ions in a solution could be controlled into a particular shape, shining a violet laser on the solution would show the shape, yes? How possible is it to control precisely concentrations of particular in a solution? I've not read anything about it, but I can't tell if it's not possible or just isn't done.
 
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It's not clear what you are really asking- do you have a particular experiment/measurement in mind?
 
What I have in mind is a programmable medium for presenting dynamic 3D forms in high resolution. I don't think I know enough to measure or expirement with this, but the image in the article seemed suggestive of a system where an array of lasers would be directed towards a volume of quinine, the fluorescence appearing only in regions of high-concentrations of chloride ions. My difficulty here is that I've never heard of controlling concentration gradients in a solution in the ways that would be necessary to generate recognizable images. I could do research into this, but if someone with greater knowledge of fluids suggested that the task would be too difficult, that would save me some time.

Does this seem reasonable?
 
miraiw said:
What I have in mind is a programmable medium for presenting dynamic 3D forms in high resolution. <snip>
Does this seem reasonable?

Not to me.
 
Are you responding to the post as a whole, or to only the idea of "presenting dynamic 3D forms in high resolution"?

I think I could have made my question clearer. Please look at this video here:
The demonstration in the video is exactly the kind of thing I'm interested in. Probably you would not call this 'high resolution', but I was comparing it to smaller cubes in a sparser grid. However, I don't want to use LEDs because I'm curious about other ways to replicate the visual quality of this voxel-based display. I hit on the fluorescence quenching, and as I mentioned, it looked like something that could be used for this thing. Why wouldn't you use this phenomenon for making a display like in the video besides there being other ways of doing it?
 
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miraiw said:
Are you responding to the post as a whole, or to only the idea of "presenting dynamic 3D forms in high resolution"?

<snip>

Time-lapse 3D images of subcellular dynamics is extremely interesting, the method you mention is highly indirect and overly complicated.

An example of alternatives that directly image items of interest: fluorescent fusion proteins, intracellular Ca++ or NO with fluorescent indicator dyes, etc. etc.
 
miraiw said:
What I have in mind is a programmable medium for presenting dynamic 3D forms in high resolution. I don't think I know enough to measure or expirement with this, but the image in the article seemed suggestive of a system where an array of lasers would be directed towards a volume of quinine, the fluorescence appearing only in regions of high-concentrations of chloride ions. My difficulty here is that I've never heard of controlling concentration gradients in a solution in the ways that would be necessary to generate recognizable images. I could do research into this, but if someone with greater knowledge of fluids suggested that the task would be too difficult, that would save me some time.

Does this seem reasonable?

One basic problem about what you have is that, to show a proper three dimensional image, you have to be able to produce an opaque dark surface as well as the bright parts of your image. If you cannot do this, the dark parts of the image will be transparent and you will see the stuff behind that you shouldn't be able to. So what you need is to be able to produce light absorbing regions as well as light emitting regions. That YouTube video consists of 'seller's images' but even they have transparent bits in them. Pretty but no fidelity.
Back to the drawing board, I think - if you want good 3D telly. A possible application for some things though.
 

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