Could someone please explain this 4-vector/tensor notation?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter AxiomOfChoice
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Explain Notation
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding 4-vector and tensor notation in the context of electromagnetism and relativistic quantum mechanics. Participants seek clarification on the meaning and implications of various equations involving partial derivatives and tensor components.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the equation for the antisymmetric field tensor, specifically regarding the interpretation of taking the partial derivative of the 4-vector potential with respect to spacetime coordinates.
  • Another participant provides examples of calculating specific components of the field tensor, illustrating the relationship between the components of the 4-vector potential and the spacetime position.
  • There is a question about the operation of partial derivatives on a wave function and whether interchanging the order of differentiation affects the outcome.
  • A later post asks if the notation involving repeated indices implies summation, which is confirmed by another participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the implications of repeated indices indicating summation, but there remains uncertainty regarding the interpretation of specific equations and the operations involved in tensor notation.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the notation and the context of the equations may not be fully articulated, leading to potential misunderstandings. The discussion does not resolve all questions about the implications of the tensor notation.

AxiomOfChoice
Messages
531
Reaction score
1
If you can answer any of the questions below, your help will be greatly appreciated.

There's an equation from E&M (I believe the definition of the antisymmetric field tensor) that reads:

[tex] F_{\mu \nu} = \frac{\partial A_\nu}{\partial x^\mu} - \frac{\partial A_\mu}{\partial x^\nu},[/tex]

where (of course) [itex]A[/itex] is the 4-vector potential. I have no idea how to parse this equation...what's going on with taking the partial of [itex]A_\nu[/itex] with respect to [itex]x^\mu[/itex]? What's this notation describing, or telling me to do? I just don't see it.

Also (and this pertains to relativistic quantum mechanics), what's meant by something like

[tex] \partial_\mu [\partial_\nu \Psi(x^\mu)],[/tex]

where (of course) [itex]\Psi(x^\mu)[/itex] is the wave function? I.e., what does it mean to operate on [itex]\partial_\nu[/itex] of something with [itex]\partial_\mu[/itex]? Particularly when that something I'm operating on is a function of [itex]x^\mu[/itex]? (By the way: In case the notation is unfamiliar to you, [itex]\partial^\mu = \partial / \partial x_\mu[/itex].) Does that turn into something? Can I compactify that? Or do I just have to leave it as [itex]\partial_\mu [\partial_\nu \Psi(x^\mu)][/itex]? Also, would I get an equivalent expression if I interchanged the order of [itex]\partial_\mu[/itex] and [itex]\partial_\nu[/itex]; i.e., if I tried to evaluate [itex]\partial_\nu [\partial_\mu \Psi(x^\mu)][/itex]? Or would I get something quite different?

Does all of this boil down to "we need two distinct dummy indices, [itex]\mu[/itex] and [itex]\nu[/itex], to indicate that there shouldn't be any summation going on?"

(P.S. - I would like to thank David J. Griffiths for getting me into the habit of italicizing words I want to emphasize.)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
AxiomOfChoice said:
[tex] F_{\mu \nu} = \frac{\partial A_\nu}{\partial x^\mu} - \frac{\partial A_\mu}{\partial x^\nu},[/tex]

where (of course) [itex]A[/itex] is the 4-vector potential. I have no idea how to parse this equation...what's going on with taking the partial of [itex]A_\nu[/itex] with respect to [itex]x^\mu[/itex]?

Given two four vectors, one for the field, and one for the spacetime
position

[tex] \vec{A} = (A_0, -A_1, -A_2, -A_3)[/tex]
[tex] \vec{x} = (x^0, x^1, x^2, x^3) = (ct, x, y, z)[/tex]

This says that there's 16 scalar quantities that can be calculated by
taking derivatives. Two examples are:

[tex] F_{23} = <br /> \frac{\partial A_3}{\partial x^2} - \frac{\partial A_2}{\partial x^3} = <br /> \frac{\partial A_3}{\partial y} - \frac{\partial A_2}{\partial z}[/tex]

[tex] F_{33} = <br /> \frac{\partial A_3}{\partial x^3} - \frac{\partial A_3}{\partial x^3} = 0[/tex]

For your other question, I'd assume summation over [itex]\mu[/itex] is implied.
 
Thanks a lot for your help!

What if I confront something like

[tex] \frac{\partial F^{\mu \nu}}{\partial x^\nu} = \partial_\nu F^{\mu \nu}?[/tex]

Does that imply a sum over [itex]\nu[/itex]?
 
Yes, if an index is repeated as an upper index and a lower index, it implies a sum over that index.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
893