Could the culture war become civil war?

[TRCSF]

I really don't care to care to defend James Dobson and his Focus on the Family organization. If they stayed out of politics, I probably wouldn't care one way or the other about them. But your comment does make me curious.

What is the criteria is for being labeled a hate group?

I assume you're being facetitious when you're labelling the Democratic party as a hate group.

As for criteria of what makes something a hate group, I'll refer you to the Southern Poverty Law Center. If you're unfamiliar with their work, they're quite the authority on hate groups.

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2005/6-10/news/localnews/antigay.cfm

 

[BobG]

I assume you're being facetitious when you're labelling the Democratic party as a hate group.

As for criteria of what makes something a hate group, I'll refer you to the Southern Poverty Law Center. If you're unfamiliar with their work, they're quite the authority on hate groups.

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2005/6-10/news/localnews/antigay.cfm

Political parties are banned in some countries, so it's not entirely facetious, but, obviously, political parties aren't considered hate groups in America, in spite of some biting political rhetoric.

Your 'typical' hate group, like the KKK, is pretty easy to classify, as well. The groups that engage in violence, or advocate violent solutions, are clearly hate groups.

The CCC is pretty clearly associated with the KKK, which makes them easy to classify, in spite of the fact that they never resort to violence or any illegal activities, themselves. Likewise, other hate and terrorist groups have had their own front groups.

The groups that target a specific group of people without violence (physical or verbal) - target them strictly though the courts or legislation - are a little harder to classify without a more precise definition. This is the area where a vague term could wind up being applied to a whole range of groups, from Focus to the Family all the way to political parties that pool together to make sure as many people from party win elections over the other party as possible.

By time you get down to political parties, their actions are designed towards a practical purpose - gaining a majority in legislative bodies so that their own legislation is more likely to be passed. To me, that's clearly politics and not hate actions.

It's not entirely clear when you start talking about social issues. Are anti-abortion groups hate groups? How does someone else getting an abortion affect someone who is opposed to abortion? Are atheists that demand all references to religion be removed from public places hate groups? That could be (and often is) perceived as religious persecution.

I think that if you want to prevent folks from doing what they want, you have to prove that behavior hurts you and others like you in some significant way (which is why I wouldn't want to defend Focus on the Family - their headquarters are here and a popular bumper sticker around town is "Focus on Your Own Damn Family"). But, I'm not sure every group that tries to impose their own beliefs on others can be categorized as a hate group without turning the term into an ordinary political insult.

 

[outsider]

Political parties are banned in some countries, so it's not entirely facetious, but, obviously, political parties aren't considered hate groups in America, in spite of some biting political rhetoric.

Your 'typical' hate group, like the KKK, is pretty easy to classify, as well. The groups that engage in violence, or advocate violent solutions, are clearly hate groups.

The CCC is pretty clearly associated with the KKK, which makes them easy to classify, in spite of the fact that they never resort to violence or any illegal activities, themselves. Likewise, other hate and terrorist groups have had their own front groups.

The groups that target a specific group of people without violence (physical or verbal) - target them strictly though the courts or legislation - are a little harder to classify without a more precise definition. This is the area where a vague term could wind up being applied to a whole range of groups, from Focus to the Family all the way to political parties that pool together to make sure as many people from party win elections over the other party as possible.

By time you get down to political parties, their actions are designed towards a practical purpose - gaining a majority in legislative bodies so that their own legislation is more likely to be passed. To me, that's clearly politics and not hate actions.

It's not entirely clear when you start talking about social issues. Are anti-abortion groups hate groups? How does someone else getting an abortion affect someone who is opposed to abortion? Are atheists that demand all references to religion be removed from public places hate groups? That could be (and often is) perceived as religious persecution.

I think that if you want to prevent folks from doing what they want, you have to prove that behavior hurts you and others like you in some significant way (which is why I wouldn't want to defend Focus on the Family - their headquarters are here and a popular bumper sticker around town is "Focus on Your Own Damn Family"). But, I'm not sure every group that tries to impose their own beliefs on others can be categorized as a hate group without turning the term into an ordinary political insult.

If a group of individuals openly have a common agenda to abolish another group, that would be a hate group.

Whether or not Political parties are hate groups is debatable as one would like to believe that one party wants to defeat the other party completely and decisively, while conspiracy theory says that they are just like brothers passing the buck back and forth.

Hate groups exist in political parties... that is for sure. Which way do most KKK's vote?

 

[The Smoking Man]

If a group of individuals openly have a common agenda to abolish another group, that would be a hate group.

Whether or not Political parties are hate groups is debatable as one would like to believe that one party wants to defeat the other party completely and decisively, while conspiracy theory says that they are just like brothers passing the buck back and forth.

Hate groups exist in political parties... that is for sure. Which way do most KKK's vote?

BNP, Sinne Fein, National Front, (Neocon(USA), LDP(Japan)) Factions within legitimate 'Conservative' parties.

Israel is also rife with political parties that would instigate Holocaust in spite of their own history.

Note, I am referring to multi party states ... hence the absence of the CCP in my observation. (For those of you who will accuse me of Bias.)

 

[outsider]

BNP, Sinne Fein, National Front, (Neocon(USA), LDP(Japan)) Factions within legitimate 'Conservative' parties.

Israel is also rife with political parties that would instigate Holocaust in spite of their own history.

Note, I am referring to multi party states ... hence the absence of the CCP in my observation. (For those of you who will accuse me of Bias.)

Rhetorical question on my part... but thanks for the added info... the conservative parties are certainly solid set in ignorance, brotherhood, fear, and conspiracy for sure. Yes, morals too. Morals = Fear.

Tough to break through one's fear and ignorance for sure... but to break the brotherhood can mean death... or worse, the brotherhood conspiring against you and anyone who you befriend.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Rhetorical question on my part... but thanks for the added info... the conservative parties are certainly solid set in ignorance, brotherhood, fear, and conspiracy for sure. Yes, morals too. Morals = Fear.

Tough to break through one's fear and ignorance for sure... but to break the brotherhood can mean death... or worse, the brotherhood conspiring against you and anyone who you befriend.

As an example of how messed up this type of politics are ...

Koizumi just made the privatization of the Post Office a Confidence issue.

When he lost, he dissolved parliament and stated that those representatives who voted against him would not be allowed by the party to stand for election come September.

Is this the purpose of an election?

Don't you vote for a person who represents you and not the Party Line?

This is exactly what the 100 flowers movement did in China.

Invite people to contribute and then round up those who went against policy.

Do you really think that this type of 'extremist politics' under a democracy diverges that much from a fascist state?

 

[outsider]

As an example of how messed up this type of politics are ...

Koizumi just made the privatization of the Post Office a Confidence issue.

When he lost, he dissolved parliament and stated that those representatives who voted against him would not be allowed by the party to stand for election come September.

Is this the purpose of an election?

Don't you vote for a person who represents you and not the Party Line?

This is exactly what the 100 flowers movement did in China.

Invite people to contribute and then round up those who went against policy.

Do you really think that this type of 'extremist politics' under a democracy diverges that much from a fascist state?

It's all about reframing. Changing slightly so that it's "different" but the effects are ultimately the same for sure... as those in power eventually become irresponsible... and buttkissers will rub up to get what they want... smart individuals never take power, but do some good buttkissing and win both ways. I think we all knew that.

 

[outsider]

Yes. I will be away from pf.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Ben Sargent's take on http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/uclickcomics/20050823/cx_bs_uc/bs20050823