Could There Be a 5th Force at Lower Energies?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of a fifth fundamental force emerging at lower energy levels than the current four known forces. Participants explore the implications of symmetry breaking and the potential for new forces in the future, as well as the status of current experimental searches for such a force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that as the universe evolves towards lower energies, a new symmetry breaking could lead to the emergence of a fifth force, questioning why the splitting of forces should stop at four.
  • Others note that all experimental tests for a fifth force have failed, yet the idea persists in cosmological discussions.
  • One participant proposes that dark energy could be considered a fifth force, although its nature and interactions remain largely unknown.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the existence of a fifth force, citing the prevalence of experiments conducted at low temperatures that have not revealed such a force.
  • There is mention of ongoing research at facilities like JLab and GSI, which aims to detect new gauge bosons, referred to as dark photons, that might mediate interactions related to dark matter.
  • A humorous remark is made regarding string theorists and their limited postulations about additional forces, suggesting a broader range of possibilities could be considered.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of a fifth force, with some expressing skepticism based on experimental results while others remain open to the idea of future discoveries.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the reliance on current experimental outcomes, which have not confirmed the existence of a fifth force, and the speculative nature of future symmetry breaking events.

Gerinski
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It is quite accepted that at sufficiently high energies 3 of the known 4 forces merge into 1 fundamental force, and it is expected by many that at even higher energies gravity should also merge with them into a single primordial force. We find ourselves in an energy period of the universe where the primordial superforce has split into 4 by different symmetry breaks.

But taking the other way, towards the future and even lower energies than current, has anybody ever speculated that a new symmetry breaking could occur creating a lower energy 5th force? Why should the splitting stop at 4?
 
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UltrafastPED said:
All experimental tests of "fifth force" have failed, but cosmologists persist!

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_force
and http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130221192736.htm

This goes to show that once an idea appears on the horizon, it never disappears!

Thanks those are nice. My question though was rather not so much whether we currently have a yet undetected 5th force (which is surely interesting enough) but whether we may just have 4 forces now but with further dilution of the energy in the future a new symmetry breaking could take place giving rise to a not-yet existing force.
 
I don't know if anyone is specifically looking for a fifth force. However many lab experiments take place at temperatures close to absolute zero, so I suspect there is no such force.
 
You could make a case for dark energy as a fifth force. Scientists are fairly convinced it exists, but, have little clue what it is, how it interacts, or its mediating particle. Not that we know all that much more about gravity. The graviton is the hypothetical mediating particle for gravity, but, has never been experimentally detected.
 
Not my specialist subject, but it seems strange that string theorists can only postulate of one more force. Can't they come up with an reason why there should be at least 37? :smile:
 
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Thanks!
 

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