Counter torque, voltage and current

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between counter torque, voltage, current, and counter electromotive force (EMF) in the context of AC generators. Participants explore how these factors interact, particularly in terms of energy conservation and mechanical power generation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether an increase in voltage would lead to a decrease in counter torque, suggesting a potential relationship between counter torque and counter EMF.
  • One participant explains that counter torque is necessary for conservation of energy, relating it to the mechanical power produced by the generator.
  • Questions are raised about the influence of voltage and current phase shift on counter torque, with some asserting that these factors can indeed affect counter torque.
  • Another participant elaborates on the relationship between counter torque and counter EMF, noting that the interaction between the source magnetic field and the magnetic field created by armature current is significant.
  • It is mentioned that not all machine models account for internal back EMF, but for those that do, the energy associated with this EMF is closely tied to counter torque.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the relationship between counter torque, voltage, and current phase shift, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain. The discussion does not reach a consensus on these points.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the definitions of counter torque and counter EMF are not explicitly stated, and the discussion includes unresolved questions about the effects of phase shifts on counter torque.

Idea04
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When an ac generator produces high current the counter torque increases, but if voltage increases would the counter torque decrease? Is counter torque related to counter EMF?
 
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Counter torque is required by conservation of energy. Mechanical power is equal to the product of torque times rotational speed. Torque (in n-m) times rotational speed (in radian per sec) gives power in Watts.

Thus the minimum possible counter torque on a generator is equal to the output power divided by the rotational speed. Of course the actual torque is typically somewhat greater than this due to the presence of both electrical and mechanical losses.
 
is counter torque affected by voltage and current phase shift?
 
Idea04 said:
is counter torque affected by voltage and current phase shift?

Yes, look at what I said above about power and counter torque. Since power can be influenced by all of those variables then the counter torque can be influenced too.
 
"is counter torque related to counter emf?"

Consider that when voltage is induced in the armature of the generator, a connected load will draw a current that creates a magnetic field which opposes the source magnetic field (lenz' law)

The more load connected (parallel) the lower the overall resistance. The current draw increases, and the magnetic field which opposes the source field is stronger.

The counter torque is the reaction between the source field (which induces voltage in the armature) and the field created by the armature current
 
Idea04 said:
Is counter torque related to counter EMF?
Yeah, that's actually a very pertinent question.

Not all machine models include an internal "back" EMF (induction motor for example), but for those that do (synchronous and DC machines for example) the energy flowing in/out of this internal EMF is precisely the energy being converted (from/to electrical to/from mechanical).

So yes, this counter EMF (or more particularly the power in this EMF) is extremely closely connected with the counter torque. Specifically it is this power, which when divided by the rotational speed, gives precisely the counter torque.
 

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