Covariant derivative of metric tensor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the covariant derivative of the metric tensor, specifically whether it equals zero. Participants explore the implications of this derivative in the context of tensor calculus, referencing a specific example from a textbook.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the zero resulting from the covariant derivative of the metric tensor should be considered a scalar or a tensorial zero, suggesting it should be a (0,3) tensor.
  • Another participant agrees with this reasoning, stating it would indeed be a (0,3) tensor with all components equal to zero.
  • Participants discuss specific components of the Christoffel symbols from the MTW book and their implications for the covariant derivative of the metric tensor.
  • One participant expresses confusion over their calculations, stating that their result for the covariant derivative does not yield zero, leading to uncertainty about whether the issue lies in conceptual understanding or procedural execution.
  • Another participant challenges the calculations, suggesting that the participant may have overlooked the symmetry of the Christoffel symbols, which could affect the outcome.
  • A later reply confirms that the oversight regarding the symmetry of the Christoffel symbols was indeed the source of the error, leading to a resolution of the confusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the nature of the covariant derivative of the metric tensor being zero, but there is initial disagreement regarding the calculations and interpretations of the Christoffel symbols. The discussion reflects a mix of confusion and clarification, with some participants correcting earlier claims.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the specific calculations of the covariant derivative and the role of the Christoffel symbols, which depend on the definitions and assumptions made in the context of the discussion.

Damidami
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Hi, I'm trying to verify that the covariant derivative of the metric tensor is D(g) = 0.
But I have a few questions:
1) This is a scalar 0 or a tensorial 0? Because it is suposed that the covariant derivative of a (m,n) tensor is a (m,n+1) tensor, and g is a (0,2) tensor so I think this 0 should be a (0,3) tensor. Am I right?

2) Following the MTW book in the example of page 341 we have:
\Gamma^{\theta}_{\phi\phi} = -sin(\theta)cos(\theta)
\Gamma^{\phi}_{\phi\theta} = cos(\theta)/sin(\theta)
and all the other \Gamma = 0

But when I try to verify the covariant derivative of the metric tensor for the component g_{\phi\phi;\theta} it doesn't give me 0, but instead:

g_{\phi\phi;\theta} = g_{\phi\phi,\theta} - \Gamma^{k}_{\theta\phi} g_{k\phi} - \Gamma^{k}_{\theta\phi} g_{\phi k} = 2a^2sin(\theta)cos(\theta) - (0+0) - (0+0) = 2a^2sin(\theta)cos(\theta) \neq 0

I checked it a lot of times and am not sure if this is a conceptual error or a procedure error.
Can someone clarify this to me?
 
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Damidami said:
Hi, I'm trying to verify that the covariant derivative of the metric tensor is D(g) = 0.
But I have a few questions:
1) This is a scalar 0 or a tensorial 0? Because it is suposed that the covariant derivative of a (m,n) tensor is a (m,n+1) tensor, and g is a (0,2) tensor so I think this 0 should be a (0,3) tensor. Am I right?
Yup, your reasoning is correct: it would be the type (0,3) tensor with every component zero.

2) Following the MTW book in the example of page 341 we have:
\Gamma^{\theta}_{\phi\phi} = -sin(\theta)cos(\theta)
\Gamma^{\phi}_{\phi\theta} = cos(\theta)/sin(\theta)
and all the other \Gamma = 0

But when I try to verify the covariant derivative of the metric tensor for the component g_{\phi\phi;\theta} it doesn't give me 0, but instead:

g_{\phi\phi;\theta} = g_{\phi\phi,\theta} - \Gamma^{k}_{\theta\phi} g_{k\phi} - \Gamma^{k}_{\theta\phi} g_{\phi k} = 2a^2sin(\theta)cos(\theta) - (0+0) - (0+0) = 2a^2sin(\theta)cos(\theta) \neq 0

I checked it a lot of times and am not sure if this is a conceptual error or a procedure error.
Can someone clarify this to me?
I don't know what the actual question is (since I don't have the book to hand) but I can't quite follow your last line. I get g_{\phi\phi;\theta}=g_{\phi\phi,\theta}-g_{k\phi}\Gamma^{k}_{\phi\theta} - g_{\phi k}\Gamma^{k}_{\phi\theta}= g_{\phi\phi,\theta}-2g_{\phi\phi}\Gamma^\phi_{\phi\theta}

Is this what you get before plugging in the values?
 
Damidami said:
Hi, I'm trying to verify that the covariant derivative of the metric tensor is D(g) = 0.
But I have a few questions:
1) This is a scalar 0 or a tensorial 0? Because it is suposed that the covariant derivative of a (m,n) tensor is a (m,n+1) tensor, and g is a (0,2) tensor so I think this 0 should be a (0,3) tensor. Am I right?

2) Following the MTW book in the example of page 341 we have:
\Gamma^{\theta}_{\phi\phi} = -sin(\theta)cos(\theta)
\Gamma^{\phi}_{\phi\theta} = cos(\theta)/sin(\theta)
and all the other \Gamma = 0

But when I try to verify the covariant derivative of the metric tensor for the component g_{\phi\phi;\theta} it doesn't give me 0, but instead:

g_{\phi\phi;\theta} = g_{\phi\phi,\theta} - \Gamma^{k}_{\theta\phi} g_{k\phi} - \Gamma^{k}_{\theta\phi} g_{\phi k} = 2a^2sin(\theta)cos(\theta) - (0+0) - (0+0) = 2a^2sin(\theta)cos(\theta) \neq 0

I checked it a lot of times and am not sure if this is a conceptual error or a procedure error.
Can someone clarify this to me?


I do get zero. Note that \Gamma^\phi_{\theta \phi} is not zero, it is equal to
\Gamma^\phi_{\phi \theta} !
 
Thanks a lot for your answers!
Indeed that was the mistake, I forgot the symetry of the chistoffel symbols, it gives 0 now!
:)
 

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