Covid-19 virus disinfectant question -- Any aerosol options?

[artis]

I have a question both with regards to the current virus as well as to other potential diseases that are carried around in aerosol form,
I have seen that commonly all hand sanitizers or sanitizers in general that use substances that are safe to humans use alcohol in some form.
So I would presume that alcohol can kill viruses like this one.

My question is , have there been any studies or is there a possibility that strong alcohol in aerosol form or maybe some other substance that has a lesser effect on the human brain but is a potent virus killer could be used to purify both air in places were the infection has accumulated like hospitals with patients or could maybe be inhaled by individuals as treatment for the virus or as a safe precaution ? Sort of like asthma patients use inhalers for asthma.

PS. as a note
I am not suggesting any malpractice but merely having curiosity about this idea.

 

[Rive]

Check on 'germicid lamp'.

 

[BillTre]

Most things that will kill a virus in the air will probably not be good for people to be exposed to.
I used to run tissue culture rooms and animal facilities. Keeping down contaminants is something I looked into a lot (more than 10 years ago). Here is what I know about various approaches.
However, there are ways to kill things in the air:
Germicidal Lamps: different from black lights, not good for skin or eye exposure, used in some lab rooms to keep down circulating contaminants but have to be turned off before people enter the room.
Alcohol in the air: never heard of this being done, would probably not be good to inhale.
Other chemicals in the air:
Bleach and Activated Bleach: kills things well, made for decontaminating all surfaces in a room, not good to breath, can be corrosive, not good for electronics. Used this techniques to sterilize particularly troublesome rooms. Ideally, the room would be isolated from the buildings HVAC system, not have cetain metals in it and no electronics. Requires a special machine to produce a mist of bleach or chemically amped up bleach in the room.
Vaporized Hydrogen Peroxide: similar to misting with the activated bleach, but H₂O₂ is not so harsh on things. I saw a video from a manufacturer of this system saying they could use it on a computer while it was running. A plus it that the H₂O₂ breaks down to H₂O and O₂, leaving no residue.

Ideally, the rooms in which these methods would be used would be designed with the technique of choice in mind rather than modifying the room later. this is probably not done much except in BL-3 or BL-4 labs to control the nasty biologicals they work with.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

I have a question both with regards to the current virus as well as to other potential diseases that are carried around in aerosol form

I will note that the COVID-19 virus is primarily transmitted by either close contact with an infected individual or through respiratory droplets produced when an infected individual coughs or sneezes, that can settle on surfaces (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html). Studies that follow the contacts of individuals known to be infected provide very little evidence of significant amounts of spread of the virus through aerosols:

“If it could easily exist as an aerosol, we would be seeing much greater levels of transmission,” said epidemiologist Michael LeVasseur of Drexel University. “And we would be seeing a different pattern in who’s getting infected. With droplet spread, it’s mostly to close contacts. But if a virus easily exists as an aerosol, you could get it from people you share an elevator with.”

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, that is not happening. Earlier this month, CDC scientists reported that the rate of symptomatic infection among a patient’s household members was 10.5%. The rate among other close contacts was 0.45%. In the case of one particular patient, none of his five household members, although continuously exposed to the patient during the time he was isolated at home, tested positive for the virus.

Even if the virus infects only a small fraction of those who come into contact with it, the extremely low rate among close contacts and the absence of infections in some household members of patients suggests that it rarely exists as an aerosol in most real-world situations.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/16/coronavirus-can-become-aerosol-doesnt-mean-doomed/

There is evidence that the virus can be aerosolized and become airborne during certain medical procedures done on people in respiratory distress, however, so the WHO has warned healthcare workers to take precautions against aerosolization of the virus. However, under normal everyday situations, transmission of the Covid-19 virus through aerosols is not a major concern.

 

[hutchphd]

I know the historical lore is that Joseph Lister sprayed cardolic acid in the operating theatre during operations.
The standard for sterilization of non-autoclavable medical stuff in my experience has been methylene oxide gas. I believe it is both poisonous and explosive!
Neither seems a good candidate in our present circumstance.

 

[ChemAir]

I know the historical lore is that Joseph Lister sprayed cardolic acid in the operating theatre during operations.
The standard for sterilization of non-autoclavable medical stuff in my experience has been methylene oxide gas. I believe it is both poisonous and explosive!
Neither seems a good candidate in our present circumstance.

Do you mean ethylene oxide?

It is poisonous, carcinogenic and has a flammability range that is challenging to deal with.

 

[hutchphd]

Yes carbolic acid and ethylene oxide. These were glucose meters and blood coagulation point of care instruments returned for failure analysis. I personally didn't deal with it!

 

[BillTre]

Industries use ethylene oxide to sterilize a variety of materials that they ship out to labs. Seems that it can leave a residue since ethylene oxide treated supplies can kill larval zebrafish (for example, keeping them in a petri plate that is ethylene oxide sterilized).
As far as I know this is only done industrially, not by university labs (which favor autoclaves, alcohol and UV).

 

[artis]

Well I guess nothing really works and if it does then you will most likely die from the cure than from the disease.
Sure one cannot put a UV lamp inside his mouth.

What's going on with ozone ? I have read that ozone has strong antibacterial properties , although I am not sure how safe it is to humans in large doses but I do wonder what would happen if we regularly added ozone to the air in our public building ventilation etc.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Ozone is also not safe to breath and it is the primary component of smog: https://www.epa.gov/ground-level-ozone-pollution/ground-level-ozone-basics

 

[Astronuc]

have there been any studies or is there a possibility that strong alcohol in aerosol form or maybe some other substance

There are studies ongoing.

For example, "New Coronavirus stable for hours on surfaces"
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/new-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces
https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/new-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces

See also - https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/coronaviruses

Human Coronaviruses: Insights into Environmental Resistance and Its Influence on the Development of New Antiseptic Strategies
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3509683/

CDC Guidelines
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/cleaning-disinfection.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/disinfecting-your-home.html

I'm curious if high alcohol content liquids, e.g., whiskey, would be effective in the mouth and throat if one gargles for some period of time. At least one can swallow it.

 

[BillTre]

I'm curious if high alcohol content liquids, e.g., whiskey, would be effective in the mouth and throat if one gargles for some period of time. At least one can swallow it.

It should in theory kill some stuff in your mouth (perhaps including any virus particles), but it won't kill any in other parts of nearby internal anatomy (like your nose). Also the desired alcohol concentration would not be well controlled (due to possible dilution with mouth fluids) and you might not reach the exposure times.
Mouth wash should be a reasonable alternative.

However, putting alcohol in your mouth might provide mental support if you are overly worried, if it reaches your stomach.

You could also use high concentration drinking alcohol (35 proof or more) for cleaning hands and surfaces

Stay intellectually thirsty my friend.

 

[artis]

Well since most of the hand sanitizers and surface ones use alcohol of 30% and higher then I think soaking one's mouth with some 50%+ might destroy all viruses in the mouth at least at that moment, should it not ?
the problem I see here is how long does the effect last? say drinking a few sips a day of such strong alcohol might not be a problem but if one has to repeat after say every 20 minutes then this advice would get everyone drunk.

As for me personally I have had nights when I drink as high as 70% spirits , either home brewed vodka or absinthe so doing this once every few hours would not be a big deal for me.

As I said the question is about the effectiveness and how long such a sanitizing effect might last?

As for the nose , well isn't it the case that if one drinks alcohol that is say 42% and above the fumes from the alcohol are strong enough that while breathing through the nose they get there too?

 

[artis]

not sure what they are spraying but it seems their putting an effort into it

 

[Tom.G]

You could also use high concentration drinking alcohol (35 proof or more) for cleaning hands and surfaces

Sorry, 35 proof is only 17.5% alcohol. Various health agencies say to use an alcohol based disinfectent with at least 60% alcohol; that's 120 proof. (proof is based on a scale of 0 to 200).

I haven't tried drinking 120proof, but i have tried 151proof (Rum). It is physically impossible to ingest. If you try to just swallow it, your throat closes and does not let it pass. If you insist by 'tossing' it back (with your throat open), the sphincter muscle at the stomach entrance refuses to open. You end up with this very strong alcohol sitting in your esophagus irritating the h**l out of it! All you can do is drink enough water to dilute the alcohol so your stomach accepts it.

Definitely NOT RECOMMENDED!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Rive]

As for me personally I have had nights when I drink as high as 70% spirits , either home brewed vodka or absinthe so doing this once every few hours would not be a big deal for me.

As I said the question is about the effectiveness...

My honest opinion is that the most notable effect would be ... well, as long as you are lying at home drunk, you likely won't contract anything or infect anybody.
But that's all. And by the end of the pandemic you will be qualified to volunteer for the local AA group...

 

[artis]

Well @Tom.G I can get it down my throat , it's not that complicated , but I don't do it on a regular basis for obvious reasons.
Surely I know people who can drink 90% alcohol much like water , sadly to say they are also not among the brightest minds I know...

 

[chemisttree]

Do you mean ethylene oxide?

It is poisonous, carcinogenic and has a flammability range that is challenging to deal with.

I would add that a fuel-air bomb, which is what you would have with an ethylene oxide treatment or an alcohol mist, would probably sterilize it.

But as soon as you did that, the inside of your building would become the outside.

 

[Rive]

Usually 'battle against the pandemic' is not taken so literally

 

[artis]

By the way , seems like already some months ago Donald Trump for some reason mentioned that UV light could be used against the virus , I searched up on that claim as I though he might have gotten it from somewhere and it turns out indeed there is a company trying to do just that by as I understand getting the UV into the lungs, there is also research going on in this area.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/17/signify-uv-light-coronavirus.html

Signify web page
https://www.signify.com/global/our-...ces-on-inactivating-virus-that-causes-covid19So what do you think about this?
If it works shouldn't we be able to use this not only for patients but also in public places as part of our lightning in order to not just fight Covid but also other germs and viruses?

 

[rbelli1]

If it works shouldn't we be able to use this not only for patients but also in public places as part of our lightning in order to not just fight Covid but also other germs and viruses?

Exposure to UV-C radiation can quickly burn the skin and cause eye damage. It’s vital that all safety instructions are followed, and shielding is in place and people absent when necessary,

there is a company trying to do just that

They are definitely not trying to use UV as a cure in humans.

BoB

 

[sysprog]

Ozone is also not safe to breath and it is the primary component of smog: https://www.epa.gov/ground-level-ozone-pollution/ground-level-ozone-basics

You probably mean right after dihydrogen monoxide and its ortholectic enantiomer, oxygen dihydride $-$

Spoiler: (it's a joke)

H2O and OH2

 

[Astronuc]

EPA has a long list of disinfectants.
https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-n-disinfectants-use-against-sars-cov-2-covid-19

 

[Tom.G]

dated July 6, 2020

EPA approves first surface disinfectant products tested on the SARS-CoV-2 virus

From: https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/ep...disinfectant-products-tested-sars-cov-2-virus

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Astronuc]

From: https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/ep...disinfectant-products-tested-sars-cov-2-virus

EPA approved two products, Lysol Disinfectant Spray (EPA Reg No. 777-99) and Lysol Disinfectant Max Cover Mist (EPA Reg No. 777-127), based on laboratory testing that shows the products are effective against SARS-CoV-2.

The active ingredient(s) is Quaternary ammonium; Ethanol (Ethyl alcohol).

https://ehs.stanford.edu/reference/comparing-different-disinfectants
Phenolic compounds are very effective against viruses.

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/benefits-alcohol-quaternary-ammonium-germicidal-wipes