Craft Beers, Microbreweries and Homebrewing

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The discussion highlights a strong appreciation for craft beers and microbreweries across the U.S., with specific mentions of popular locations like Rock Bottom Tavern, Stone Brewing Co., and Oak Pond Brewery. Participants share their favorite brews, including unique ales and lagers, and discuss the brewing process, particularly the use of top and bottom-fermenting yeasts. The conversation also touches on the evolution of American brewing since the 1980s, noting the rise of craft breweries and their growing international recognition. Overall, the thread reflects a vibrant community of beer enthusiasts eager to explore and celebrate diverse brewing styles.
  • #121
Insanity said:
I've never had any bottles explode.
Me, either. I used way more sugar and malt than most in the initial fermentations, worked them down until the ferrmenting beer was flat (no more bubbles) and then decanted the beer into old swirl Pepsi bottles (very tough bottles) loaded with more sugar syrup before capping.

The result was very strong beer on a par with most wines. The old fellow that taught me how to brew used to say that if I did it right "Drink a pint before supper, and you can't tell me what you had for supper. Drink two pints before supper and you can't tell me if you had supper." He was right.

My wife and I would host pot-luck parties at that old farm-house, and I'd make core dishes like chili, spaghetti, breads, etc, plus supply beer. We'd also provide enough room for guests to crash for the night. A few years ago, a biker friend of mine met another guy in the real-estate business, and when he mentioned my name the other guy told him "He makes the best beer in the world!". He didn't mention that I also make the best spaghetti. He and I held a spaghetti challenge almost 35 years ago at that old farm-house to see who made the best sauce. The vote was about even, but he had sauce to take back home with him the next morning. My sauce (bigger batch) was gone. He is a proponent of the thick "meat sauce" model in which the ground meats are finely dispersed in the sauce and cooked a long time. Not me. I like to have chunks of seared browned meats, including ground beef, hot sausage, pepperoni, etc, in a sauce featuring lots of peppers, chilies, onions, garlic, etc. I don't want the sauce to be homogenized by over-cooking and simmering. You should be able to savor each mouth-ful.
 
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  • #122
Oh yeah, just to be clear again: I messed up, it's not beer making that failed! :smile:
 
  • #123
So we brewed a batch of porter this evening.

http://www.capecodbeer.com/brewery/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Recipe_porter.pdf

For more ideas

http://www.capecodbeer.com/brewery/index.php/cape-cod-homebrew-supply/beer-making/

http://www.capecodbeer.com/brewery/index.php/category/recipes/

And we talked about beer making, the economy and investing, and seriously buying some land for growing grain and hops. :biggrin:

My friend and officemate has a great reference book:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003CNQ4OS/?tag=pfamazon01-20

http://www.radicalbrewing.com/ :biggrin:

And we tasted several porters and stouts, and Ayinger Celebrator, which is a Bavarian Doppelbock, and which must be a Schwarzbier.

The porters included Yuengling porter and Benchwarmer porter from Cooperstown Brewing
http://www.cooperstownbrewing.com/beer.htm

The stout was Rogue Mocha Stout.
 
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  • #124
Astronuc said:
So we brewed a batch of porter this evening.

http://www.capecodbeer.com/brewery/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Recipe_porter.pdf

For more ideas

http://www.capecodbeer.com/brewery/index.php/cape-cod-homebrew-supply/beer-making/

http://www.capecodbeer.com/brewery/index.php/category/recipes/

And we talked about beer making, the economy and investing, and seriously buying some land for growing grain and hops. :biggrin:

My friend and officemate has a great reference book:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003CNQ4OS/?tag=pfamazon01-20

http://www.radicalbrewing.com/ :biggrin:

And we tasted several porters and stouts, and Ayinger Celebrator, which is a Bavarian Doppelbock, and which must be a Schwarzbier.

Hmmmm... I wonder if you could make a deal with Verrill or Idlewild Farms?... Maybe a local co-op? You wouldn't need much land to grow all the grains you needed.. some barley, rye, corn, and wheat should cover anything save wine.
 
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  • #125
I got some data from the USDA, for lb yield per acre for several grains.

Barley = 2,510 lb/acre
Wheat = 2,143 lb/acre
Corn = 6,825 lb/acre
Rye = 1,310 lb/acre
Oats = 1,700 lb/acre
Rice = 6,647 lb/acre

To get 5 gallons of a beer at ~4.5% ABV needs ~8.5 lbs of barley/wheat.
An acre, growing several types should do anyone fine.
 
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  • #126
Insanity said:
I got some data from the USDA, for lb yield per acre for several grains.

Barley = 2,510 lb/acre
Wheat = 2,143 lb/acre
Corn = 6,825 lb/acre
Rye = 1,310 lb/acre
Oats = 1,700 lb/acre
Rice = 6,647 lb/acre

To get 5 gallons of a beer at ~4.5% ABV needs ~8.5 lbs of barley/wheat.
An acre, growing several types should do anyone fine.

Growing is going to be out of the question. Thank god I live where grain is grown, even though I'll probably have to do some looking when it come to Barley, Rye and Hops. Everything else I can get from the grain elevators in 50 lb sacks.

I've got lots of learning to do.
 
  • #127
dlgoff said:
Growing is going to be out of the question. Thank god I live where grain is grown, even though I'll probably have to do some looking when it come to Barley, Rye and Hops. Everything else I can get from the grain elevators in 50 lb sacks.

I've got lots of learning to do.

You'll have no problem with Barley, it's still quite popular and sold in bulk in Whole Foods and similar stores.

Rye... you may need to look for, but Hops... hops you're best served by going to a brewing store; they're going to have the best selection for all kinds of hopping, up to and including aggressive dry hopping.
 
  • #128
nismaratwork said:
...but Hops... hops you're best served by going to a brewing store; they're going to have the best selection for all kinds of hopping, up to and including aggressive dry hopping.
I remember talk between Turbo-1 and Astronuc, a couple of years ago, about trying to grow hops up there in Maine.

If Astronuc or Turbo ever gets into the business of hops, they can put me on their buyers list.

Thanks for the info nismaratwork.
 
  • #129
dlgoff said:
I remember talk between Turbo-1 and Astronuc, a couple of years ago, about trying to grow hops up there in Maine.

If Astronuc or Turbo ever gets into the business of hops, they can put me on their buyers list.

Thanks for the info nismaratwork.

Oh you can definitely grow hops... it's related to cannabis, but generally is grown in a trellice. Quite fragrant though, so if you don't like the smell that can be an issue,... but then, who doesn't love that musky, bitter, citrus smell?
 
  • #130
So next weekend, I will be heading out to Big Sky, MT for a conference. Why post in this thread about? Well, I plan on partaking in a bunch of Western Craft beers. Specifically, I want to check out Big Sky Brewing company. Here is there beer lineup: http://www.bigskybrew.com/Our_Beers

I really want to check out their brown ale, Moose Drool.

Anyone have any experience with Montana craft beers? Or just beers only found west of the Mississippi? I tend to stay away from IPAs, but everything else is on the table for me. So, any recommendations would be appreciated.
 
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  • #131
Norman said:
So next weekend, I will be heading out to Big Sky, MT for a conference. Why post in this thread about? Well, I plan on partaking in a bunch of Western Craft beers. Specifically, I want to check out Big Sky Brewing company. Here is there beer lineup: http://www.bigskybrew.com/Our_Beers

I really want to check out their brown ale, Moose Drool.

Anyone have any experience with Montana craft beers? Or just beers only found west of the Mississippi? I tend to stay away from IPAs, but everything else is on the table for me. So, any recommendations would be appreciated.

I'm not sure, but man, you had better take picture of these brews and post them! :biggrin:

You lucky devil!
 
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  • #132
nismaratwork said:
Oh you can definitely grow hops... it's related to cannabis, but generally is grown in a trellice. Quite fragrant though, so if you don't like the smell that can be an issue,... but then, who doesn't love that musky, bitter, citrus smell?

Hops grow quite well, during the growing season they can add 18 inches a day.
I know a few people here in Michigan that grow their own, some strains are very hardy, specifically the Cascade and Centennial hops. My college friend had started those two plus Saaz and another European strain, and the two European ones got ravaged by japanese beetles, but the American strains were untouched. Each year he cuts them back to the ground, covers them with leaves and they survive the winter fine. He says they are quite hardy, almost kudzu-ish.

Yes, Hops and Cannabis belong to the same plant family, Cannabaceae, which also includes hackberries.

Hops are also relatively new in brewing within the last few centuries I think, various spices and herbs were used to add flavor to beer before the usage of hops. There still is a style called gruit, which does not use any hops. This summer friend of mine brewed one, he used lemongrass, nutmeg, allspice and a few other herbs. Smelled awesome, and many people he should use it to cook a chicken with.
 
  • #133
Insanity said:
Hops grow quite well, during the growing season they can add 18 inches a day.
I know a few people here in Michigan that grow their own, some strains are very hardy, specifically the Cascade and Centennial hops. My college friend had started those two plus Saaz and another European strain, and the two European ones got ravaged by japanese beetles, but the American strains were untouched. Each year he cuts them back to the ground, covers them with leaves and they survive the winter fine. He says they are quite hardy, almost kudzu-ish.

Yes, Hops and Cannabis belong to the same plant family, Cannabaceae, which also includes hackberries.

Hops are also relatively new in brewing within the last few centuries I think, various spices and herbs were used to add flavor to beer before the usage of hops. There still is a style called gruit, which does not use any hops. This summer friend of mine brewed one, he used lemongrass, nutmeg, allspice and a few other herbs. Smelled awesome, and many people he should use it to cook a chicken with.

AFAIK you're right about hops, and I think some true Lambics are also unhopped. 18 inches though? Fantastic!

What kind of soil do you need to grow them, and how does it effect flavor and aroma? You seem to really know your stuff!
 
  • #134
I don't think they really require anything more then slightly raised bed to allow some drainage. The local brew supply place sells the rhizomes in the springtime, I thought I might get some of cascade and centennial, the most common used, and see if I can start some of my own. I am sure fertilizing each season wouldn't hurt, composed manure. I'll ask my friend.

Dealing with the vines is the bigger challenge. My friend usually goes out each day during the growing season and ties down the vines so they don't go everywhere, and I believe he has some growing up a gazebo, and then a trellis on the side of his house. As the vines can reach a length of 20ft, even during their first growing season, you need space for them. He usually gets several pounds of hop flowers from each vine, so a fair amount, enough for homebrewing. A good pale ale doesn't need more then an ounce per 5 gallons usually. IPAs might take 3-5 oz depending on how bitter you want it. Each strain of hops has a range of percentage of the alpha acid, which provides the bitterness, and that can vary from season to season. Cascade and Centennial are usually high in alpha acids, 5.75% - 10%. There is math to figure out how much to use to hit a target bitterness, or IBU (International Bitterness Unit).

I've spent many hours reading books on beer making, and belong to a local brewing club. Kinda unique among my brewing club as I have a bio/chem degree and am perfectly willing to study and learn it, and know there is a science behind the art of brewing. Some of the best homebrewers out there are engineers or scientists.

Got third place in my first competition with my first fruit beer, which I was happy. Got a bit of cash and some free mystery hops.

Charlie Papazian is notable for his book The Complete Joy of Homebrewing. and is current president of the Brewers Association, he is a nuclear engineer.

Ray Daniels wrote Designing Great Beers, he holds a degree in Biochemistry and has won numerous awards at beer competitions.

For those looking to seriously get into homebrewing and making good brew, I highly recommending getting these two books. Charlie's I think is the best intro into homebrewing and Ray's is great for looking at the many different styles and how to make them.

John Palmer wrote How to Brew, he is a metallurgist, he also made a sliderule to do gravity/volume conversion and IBU calculations with. Got this for Xmas this past.

Maybe I'll get a list of the books I own on homebrewing.
 
  • #135
Insanity said:
I don't think they really require anything more then slightly raised bed to allow some drainage. The local brew supply place sells the rhizomes in the springtime, I thought I might get some of cascade and centennial, the most common used, and see if I can start some of my own. I am sure fertilizing each season wouldn't hurt, composed manure. I'll ask my friend.

Dealing with the vines is the bigger challenge. My friend usually goes out each day during the growing season and ties down the vines so they don't go everywhere, and I believe he has some growing up a gazebo, and then a trellis on the side of his house. As the vines can reach a length of 20ft, even during their first growing season, you need space for them. He usually gets several pounds of hop flowers from each vine, so a fair amount, enough for homebrewing. A good pale ale doesn't need more then an ounce per 5 gallons usually. IPAs might take 3-5 oz depending on how bitter you want it. Each strain of hops has a range of percentage of the alpha acid, which provides the bitterness, and that can vary from season to season. Cascade and Centennial are usually high in alpha acids, 5.75% - 10%. There is math to figure out how much to use to hit a target bitterness, or IBU (International Bitterness Unit).

I've spent many hours reading books on beer making, and belong to a local brewing club. Kinda unique among my brewing club as I have a bio/chem degree and am perfectly willing to study and learn it, and know there is a science behind the art of brewing. Some of the best homebrewers out there are engineers or scientists.

Charlie Papazian is notable for his book The Complete Joy of Homebrewing. and is current president of the Brewers Association, he is a nuclear engineer.

Ray Daniels wrote Designing Great Beers, he holds a degree in Biochemistry and has won numerous awards at beer competitions.

For those looking to seriously get into homebrewing and making good brew, I highly recommending getting these two books. Charlie's I think is the best intro into homebrewing and Ray's is great for looking at the many different styles and how to make them.

John Palmer wrote How to Brew, he is a metallurgist, he also made a sliderule to do gravity/volume conversion and IBU calculations with. Got this for Xmas this past.

Maybe I'll get a list of the books I own on homebrewing.

Nice... this is why I finally snagged a Kindle. Thanks very much Insanity, you're a fount of good information!
 
  • #136
nismaratwork said:
Oh you can definitely grow hops... it's related to cannabis, but generally is grown in a trellice. Quite fragrant though, so if you don't like the smell that can be an issue,... but then, who doesn't love that musky, bitter, citrus smell?

Well then. I certainly have the space. Sounds like more research.

nismaratwork said:
What kind of soil do you need to grow them, and how does it effect flavor and aroma? You seem to really know your stuff!

Great question. I guessing that since cannabis grows wild everywhere around here (mainly around rail ways where it was shipped for hemp products during WWII), hops should do well here.

And I agree about Insanity knowing his stuff. Maybe PF should have a new category for the annual awards. A BEER GURU award would definitely go to him.
 
  • #137
dlgoff said:
Well then. I certainly have the space. Sounds like more research.



Great question. I guessing that since cannabis grows wild everywhere around here (mainly around rail ways where it was shipped for hemp products during WWII), hops should do well here.

And I agree about Insanity knowing his stuff. Maybe PF should have a new category for the annual awards. A BEER GURU award would definitely go to him.

Hmmm... PF Oktoberfest? :wink:
 
  • #138
There must be something wrong with me. I went all weekend without a beer; and I had those two six packs of Wheat State Golden that I wanted to try.

It's noon her now so I'm catching up for lost time.

BTW There's only one liquor store that carries Free State microbrewery beer in Lawrence, so far. It was less than $4/6-pack which is much cheaper than the growler route and taste great.

I also checked into home brewing suppliers here in Kansas and there are three. One is just about 20 miles down the road in north Topeka. Yea!
 
  • #139
dlgoff said:
I also checked into home brewing suppliers here in Kansas and there are three. One is just about 20 miles down the road in north Topeka. Yea!

Pick the one that knows the alpha acid % (AA%) of their hops and that the hops are refrigerated. Any place that doesn't know the AA% shouldn't be open in many brewers opinions. A good place also has a grain mill to crush the grains there. Crushing grains without one is quite difficult.

Find a local club.
Code: 
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/directories/find-a-club

Find a local supply shop
Code: 
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/directories/find-a-supply-shop
 
  • #140
dlgoff said:
There must be something wrong with me. I went all weekend without a beer; and I had those two six packs of Wheat State Golden that I wanted to try.

It's noon her now so I'm catching up for lost time.

BTW There's only one liquor store that carries Free State microbrewery beer in Lawrence, so far. It was less than $4/6-pack which is much cheaper than the growler route and taste great.

I also checked into home brewing suppliers here in Kansas and there are three. One is just about 20 miles down the road in north Topeka. Yea!

Hmmmm, I don't think I'll be making jokes at Kansas' expense anymore. Yum.
 
  • #141
Insanity said:
Pick the one that knows the alpha acid % (AA%) of their hops and that the hops are refrigerated. Any place that doesn't know the AA% shouldn't be open in many brewers opinions. A good place also has a grain mill to crush the grains there. Crushing grains without one is quite difficult.

Find a local club.
Code: 
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/directories/find-a-club

Find a local supply shop
Code: 
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/directories/find-a-supply-shop

Again, thanks for helping.

I thought I would try to get over to the Topeka supplier later this week and have a little talk with them. So I'm putting these questions at the top of the list. I do think they have milling services but I'll make sure.
 
  • #142
When I've gotten 55# bags of pale malt, is usually comes crushed, but specialty grains are usually sold in 1#, 3#, 10#.

There has been occasions where I forgot to get the grains crushed, and as I don't yet have my own mill, the alternate to use a rolling pin, and even 2# is rough.

Having a variety of hops, grains and yeast is nice. The yeast is what really makes the beer. You can use the same amount of grains and hops, but use two different yeast and each beer will differ.
 
  • #143
Insanity said:
When I've gotten 55# bags of pale malt, is usually comes crushed, but specialty grains are usually sold in 1#, 3#, 10#.

There has been occasions where I forgot to get the grains crushed, and as I don't yet have my own mill, the alternate to use a rolling pin, and even 2# is rough.

Having a variety of hops, grains and yeast is nice. The yeast is what really makes the beer. You can use the same amount of grains and hops, but use two different yeast and each beer will differ.

Mmmm... yeast... truly a wonderful organism(s)... MOST of the time.
 
  • #144
I think the yeast is more important in brewing then most people realize, and there are many different strains of yeast used in brewing aside from the broad ale and lager categories.

White Labs and Wyeast Labs are pretty much the top two labs for producing yeast for fermentation of beer, ciders and wine. Both have about 50 different yeast strains, that can differ in alcohol tolerance, attenuation, flavor profile, etc...

Which is great, because if you want to make a dry irish stout, you can use an irish yeast.

Code: 
[PLAIN]http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_strains.html[/PLAIN] 
http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain.cfm

I have read that the Belgium trappist breweries are so particular, that when they will select their yeast cell by cell under a microscope to choose which ones are used to establish their "base".
 
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  • #145
Insanity said:
I think the yeast is more important in brewing then most people realize, and there are many different strains of yeast used in brewing aside from the broad ale and lager categories.

White Labs and Wyeast Labs are pretty much the top two labs for producing yeast for fermentation of beer, ciders and wine. Both have about 50 different yeast strains, that can differ in alcohol tolerance, attenuation, flavor profile, etc...

Which is great, because if you want to make a dry irish stout, you can use an irish yeast.

Code: 
[PLAIN]http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_strains.html[/PLAIN] 
http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain.cfm

I have read that the Belgium trappist breweries are so particular, that when they will select their yeast cell by cell under a microscope to choose which ones are used to establish their "base".

That does make sense... much the same issues with starter for bread.
 
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  • #146
nismaratwork said:
AFAIK you're right about hops, and I think some true Lambics are also unhopped. 18 inches though? Fantastic!

What kind of soil do you need to grow them, and how does it effect flavor and aroma? You seem to really know your stuff!

I asked my friend about what he does for his hops each year, and he says he throws a heaping pile of fresh compost from his compost pile and then uses a light 1/5 strength miracle grow when they start to flower.
 
  • #147
Insanity said:
I asked my friend about what he does for his hops each year, and he says he throws a heaping pile of fresh compost from his compost pile and then uses a light 1/5 strength miracle grow when they start to flower.

Well, that sounds pretty easy! The vine mangement... not so much, but possibly fun. Thanks Insanity!
 
  • #148
The more I think about it, the more interested I would be in getting into homebrewing.

The only reservation I have about it is trying to regulate the temperature during fermentation. How do people typically do this? I doubt my wife would let me do the fermentation in the house... My house is horribly insulated anyways. Wild temperature variations in winter when I turn the heat way down while we are at work. I don't have a basement and my garage is not connected to the house nor is it heated.
 
  • #149
Norman said:
The more I think about it, the more interested I would be in getting into homebrewing.

The only reservation I have about it is trying to regulate the temperature during fermentation. How do people typically do this? I doubt my wife would let me do the fermentation in the house... My house is horribly insulated anyways. Wild temperature variations in winter when I turn the heat way down while we are at work. I don't have a basement and my garage is not connected to the house nor is it heated.

Bathtub.
 
  • #150
There are brew belts and other electric devices to keep things warm. There are also thermostat devices to keep freezer and/or fridges at the ideal temps for cooler fermentations, such as lagers.

Code: 
[PLAIN]http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/brewing-equipment/fermenting-equipment/fermentation-temperature-control
[/PLAIN]

Ideally, the temp must be around 70-74F to allow fermentation to start, but afterwards, keeping it around 60F is fine. Lagering can be done down to as low as 35F. It all depends on the beer being made. Belgium styles sometimes ferment in the mid 80s.

Unless your house is constantly in the 80s in the summer, or in the 50s in the winter, I wouldn't be too concerned. I don't use any temp control devices myself, but I do have a large basement where I place my fermentors after the primary fermetation has started.

It is important that it is in a dark area though, sunlight will inhibit fermetation and skunk beer quickly. Wrapping a heavy blanket or towel around the fermentor will help that.
 
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