Creating a Focused Waveform to Pass Through Clothing and Structures

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the creation of a focused waveform capable of penetrating clothing and light structural materials to reach human tissue. Participants explore various technologies, including lasers and masers, and their potential effectiveness for this application.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a system requiring a focused wavelength that does not widen significantly over distances, aiming to penetrate clothing and light materials.
  • Another participant questions the purpose of targeting biologically inert signals, seeking clarification on the intended application.
  • A participant describes a concept involving a receiver that delivers pain stimuli via electric shock, suggesting a specific application for the waveform.
  • Suggestions are made to consider laser pointers, with a note on safety and the need for protection when using higher class lasers.
  • Concerns are raised about the ability of class three lasers to penetrate clothing, leading to the suggestion of using masers for their microwave capabilities.
  • A participant mentions the Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System (MILES) as a reference point, questioning the need for a range of a mile due to projectile motion considerations.
  • Another participant acknowledges the arbitrary nature of the one-mile benchmark and reiterates the need for a focused wave detectable through clothing.
  • One participant expresses a belief that masers could be logical for this application but notes their lack of miniaturization compared to lasers.
  • Another participant shares findings on miniature masers and advancements in solid-state masers, suggesting potential avenues for exploration.
  • A technical consideration is raised regarding the requirements for a parallel beam over a mile, including the need for a specific wavelength and power challenges associated with masers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of ideas and suggestions, with no clear consensus on the best approach or technology to use. Disagreements arise regarding the effectiveness of lasers versus masers and the feasibility of penetrating clothing at the desired range.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include uncertainties about the effectiveness of different wavelengths and technologies, as well as the challenges of power requirements for achieving the desired penetration through materials.

Benleuenberger
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so I am hatching an idea for a system of equipment which requires a focussed wavelength which will not greatly widen over distances of less than a mile. Also the waveform needs to be sensible by receiver antenna or something of a similar nature. It is necessary that the waveform be able to penetrate at least an average layer of clothing before contacting the receiver and ideally be able to pass through light structural materials (think drywall).

The end target of this waveform will be human tissue so it has to be biologically inert or have at most some negligible effects over time and repeated exposures.

I'm not sure if a laser/maser or related phenomenon is the answer but to my knowledge it is the closest existing solution to my question. If anyone has any other ideas I would greatly appreciate suggestions.
 
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If your signal is biologically inert having that as a target would do nothing. What exactly are you attempting?

BoB
 
Mimicking a bullet that would be picked up by a receiver worn by the user, which would then deliver pain stimulus via electric shock to the effected area via software contained in the greater system.
 
You may want to look at laser pointers for ideas. I suspect you will need a class 3 device to get the range you want, In which case you will need to look at what sort of protection you will need for your users (and targets).

Anything outside of visible wavelengths needs more care because you loose the protection of the blink reflex while the energy may still be able to damage eyesight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety
 
Right! This I know already regarding safety. The problem I find is that if a receiver were worn underneath a layer of clothing I don't believe that even a class three laser would penetrate to the receiver. This is why I thought a maser could be the answer as microwaves have more of an ability than light to penetrate materials. Unless Ian mistaken on this subject which is possible.
 
True honestly I threw down a mile as an arbitrary benchmark. Also have heard of and used miles and think it's a good idea with bad execution. I know there is a better alternative. I just need a focussed wave of something that can be picked up by antenna through a layer or two of clothing
 
I haven't worked with MASERs, but that seems like a logical thing to use to get the ability to go through clothing. Unfortunately, they haven't seen the miniaturization that LASERs have over the past decade or so. Have you looked into what the smaller MASERs look like?
 
  • #10
berkeman said:
I Googled miniature MASER, and got some interesting hits. There was a Nature article about an advancement in solid state MASERs a couple years ago:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/200128777162306103/

Here's the full Google search hit list -- https://www.google.com/search?sourc...l=hp...0j0i22i30l4.0.0.0.3664...0.2rHKXj6cdYM

:smile:
To obtain a parallel beam for a mile would, assuming a 1m diameter dish antenna, require a wavelength less than 0.25mm. It is difficult to obtain a lot of power at such wavelengths, but it would penetrate clothing to some extent I think. A smaller dish would require a smaller wavelength. Not sure a Maser is the best source of power though. I suppose that infra red is the way to go.
 

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