Creating shadow of an object by radio waves

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of creating a shadow of an object using radio waves, exploring the theoretical and practical implications of such a system involving special materials and sensor planes. The conversation touches on concepts related to wave behavior, antenna design, and the characteristics of radio waves compared to light waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a shadow can be generated by radiating light waves and questions if a similar effect can be achieved with radio waves, special materials, and a sensor plane.
  • Another participant explains that the sharpness of the shadow created by radio waves depends on the wavelength and opacity of the object, noting that longer wavelengths may produce fuzzier shadows due to diffraction.
  • It is mentioned that radio waves can easily penetrate materials like brick and human tissue but are blocked by metal, which could affect shadow formation.
  • A participant proposes using high microwave frequencies (above 10 GHz) with a dish antenna to scan across the object, although they conclude that achieving this effect may be challenging.
  • Several participants introduce the concept of "tower shadow," where antennas mounted on towers exhibit favored sensitivity directions, drawing parallels to the proposed shadow creation with radio waves.
  • One participant discusses the behavior of antennas, including the effects of reflectors and directors in enhancing directivity, and mentions that propagation plots can reveal shadows created by terrain at VHF frequencies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility and mechanics of creating shadows with radio waves, with no consensus reached on the practicality of the proposed system. Some agree on the theoretical aspects while others introduce different concepts related to antenna behavior and wave propagation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the materials and configurations that could be used, as well as the limitations of radio wave behavior compared to light waves. The implications of antenna design and environmental factors on shadow formation remain unresolved.

ductrungvn
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Hi guys,
We all know that a shadow could be generated by radiating light waves to an object.
Would it be possible to design a system with radio waves, an object made by a special material and a sensor plane in order to create a shadow of the object on the plane?
Cheers!
 
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The difference between light waves and radio waves is mostly a matter of frequency and method of detection.

The sharpness of the shadow depends very much on the wavelength of the radiation hitting the object and also on how opaque the object is to the radiation.
Radio waves will pass easily through a brick wall and fairly easily through a human, but they are stopped by an area of metal.
Long wavelengths would cast a more fuzzy shadow than short wavelengths due to diffraction effects around the edges of the object.

Since we can't see radio waves, we would need some way of detecting their presence or absence in the shadow area. This is normally done with some type of antenna which has to be comparable in length to the wavelength of the radiation.
This would certainly favour short wavelengths as radio antennas can be many meters long for longer wavelengths.

So you would probably need to be using high microwave frequencies (ie above 10 GHz) and this could be achieved with a dish antenna that scanned across the object while transmitting.

It isn't really possible, but those are some suggestions on how this might be achieved.
 
Thank you very much for your very clear answer, vk6kro.
It is really appreciated.
Wish you all the best! :D
 
Anyone here ever heard of a tower shadow? It is when an antenna is mounted to the side of a tower which causes a favored direction in sensativity.
 
Last edited:
Or going under a bridge while listing to your autos FM radio.
 
Averagesupernova said:
Anyone here ever heard of a tower shadow? It is when an antenna is mounted to the side of a tower which causes a favored direction in sensativity.

This is exactly the same effect that you get with an H antenna. One element (the reflector) is fed and the other is made (appropriately) just a bit longer and at the correct spacing. It absorbs and re-radiates a signal from the driven element. The two resulting signals add in phase in tyhe wanted direction and cancel in the 'backward' direction. Adding shorter, 'director' elements, in front will have the effect of making the antenna more directive. (A Yagi antenna)

In this case, there is no power loss but there are occasions where an absorbing structure (say a hill or building) is in the way, most of the incident power is just absorbed and dissipated resistively - there is no 'reflection'.
 
ductrungvn said:
Hi guys,
We all know that a shadow could be generated by radiating light waves to an object.
Would it be possible to design a system with radio waves, an object made by a special material and a sensor plane in order to create a shadow of the object on the plane?
Cheers!

Averagesupernova said:
Anyone here ever heard of a tower shadow? It is when an antenna is mounted to the side of a tower which causes a favored direction in sensativity.

Yes to both questions.

To a large extent it depends on the scale you are interested in. Propagation plots reveal the shadows created by hills even at VHF frequencies. For shadows at smaller scales you must use higher frequencies.

Manufacturers of omnidirectional antennas sometimes publish the antenna patterns of the antenna by itself and when mounted off the side of a tower. Again, the effect is greater at higher frequencies.
 

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