Criteria for Determining Satellite's Return from Orbit?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the criteria for a satellite's return to a planet's surface, utilizing concepts from conservation of energy and angular momentum. Participants are exploring the implications of various conditions and inequalities related to satellite motion and orbital mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to apply conservation laws to analyze the satellite's trajectory and conditions for returning to the planet. Questions arise regarding the nature of the satellite's path and the implications of firing angles and velocities.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants raising questions about the validity of certain assumptions and exploring different interpretations of the inequalities presented. Some guidance has been offered regarding the simplification of the original inequality, but no consensus has been reached on the criteria for the satellite's return.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the conditions under which a satellite can return to the planet, particularly concerning escape velocity and the implications of various angles of launch. Participants are also noting potential contradictions in the established inequalities.

Clara Chung
Messages
300
Reaction score
13

Homework Statement


upload_2018-4-9_23-44-47.png


Homework Equations


Conservation of energy/ angular momentum

The Attempt at a Solution


I used conservation of momentum to do part d. My answer is VB/VA=sinα /X. i don't know how to do part e. What is the criteria to determine whether the satellite will return to the planet's surface?
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-4-9_23-44-47.png
    upload_2018-4-9_23-44-47.png
    38.3 KB · Views: 730
Physics news on Phys.org
The question seems strange in at least one regard: the inequality to be proved can be greatly simplified... but you do have to be careful with signs.

It gets even stranger when you figure out the range of X values for which the given inequality is false.

Now, I'm no expert in this area, but I always thought that if an object is a satellite (i.e. below escape velocity) then it follows an elliptical path forever. It cannot start on some other path and migrate to an elliptical orbit without some impulse being applied. So if it starts off rising from the surface at some angle above the horizontal, and is below escape velocity, then...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Clara Chung
I don't know too. I always thought that it either fire the satellite tangentially or fire the satellite with an angle but it will always return to the earth...
 
Clara Chung said:
I don't know too. I always thought that it either fire the satellite tangentially or fire the satellite with an angle but it will always return to the earth...

##\frac{X(X-1)}{X^2 - \sin^2\alpha} \le \frac{X(X-1)}{X^2 - 1} = \frac{X}{X + 1} < 1 \ \ ## (for ##X > 1##)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Clara Chung
PeroK said:
##\frac{X(X-1)}{X^2 - \sin^2\alpha} \le \frac{X(X-1)}{X^2 - 1} = \frac{X}{X + 1} < 1 \ \ ## (for ##X > 1##)
I think it is more helpful to simplify the original inequality, working the cases of positive and negative denominator separately.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Clara Chung
haruspex said:
I think it is more helpful to simplify the original inequality, working the cases of positive and negative denominator separately.
How about assume that the velocity when the satellite reach the Earth be v.
By conservation of energy,
mvA2 / 2 = mv2 /2
=> vA=v
By conservation of angular momentum,
vA sin α R = v R
=> sin α = 1 ?
 
Clara Chung said:
How about assume that the velocity when the satellite reach the Earth be v.
By conservation of energy,
mvA2 / 2 = mv2 /2
=> vA=v
By conservation of angular momentum,
vA sin α R = v R
=> sin α = 1 ?

I wouldn't worry about this problem. There's definitely something not quite right.
 
Clara Chung said:
I don't know too. I always thought that it either fire the satellite tangentially or fire the satellite with an angle but it will always return to the earth...
Not if it is fired fast enough (escape velocity), but then B would be at infinity, making X infinite.

For what little it is worth, the simplification of the given inequality goes like this:
If the denominator > 0 (i.e. X>sin(α)) then we can multiply out to get
X(X-1)<X2-sin2(α)
Cancelling an X2:
-X<-sin2(α)
X>sin2(α)
And since we are assuming X>sin(α) that is trivially true.
But if X<sin(α) then when we multiply out to there is a reversal:
X(X-1)>X2-sin2(α)
Cancelling an X2:
-X>-sin2(α)
X<sin2(α)
So the given inequality is equivalent to:
X<sin2(α) or X>sin(α).

The implication, sort of, is that if sin2(α) < X<sin(α) then it will not crash back to the planet. This is clearly absurd. If X<1 then the point B is inside the planet.
 
haruspex said:
The implication, sort of, is that if sin2(α) < X<sin(α) then it will not crash back to the planet. This is clearly absurd. If X<1 then the point B is inside the planet.

##X > 1## by its definition in the problem.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K