Cycloid power series. problem from hell.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the first non-zero terms, the general term, and the interval of convergence for the cycloid power series, focusing on the parametric equations of a cycloid. Participants explore the mathematical representation of the cycloid and its properties, including Taylor series expansions and derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests assistance in finding the cycloid power series, specifying the equations for x and y in parametric form.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for showing work before receiving help, suggesting that the original poster should post in the homework forums.
  • A participant expresses familiarity with Taylor polynomials but is uncertain about applying them in parametric mode, mentioning the derivatives of y with respect to x.
  • Another participant introduces a different parametric representation of the cycloid and discusses its derivatives, providing a series expansion at a specific point and noting properties related to the brachistochrone equation.
  • A later reply questions the meaning of "cycloid power series," asking whether it refers to separate power series for x and y.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the interpretation of the "cycloid power series," and multiple viewpoints regarding the approach to the problem are present. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the power series representation.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion, including unclear assumptions about the function being represented by the power series and the need for more explicit definitions of terms used in the problem.

mathwiz1234
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:devil: Can you handle it?

Find the first non-zero terms, the general term for the cycloid power series, and the interval of convergence for the cycloid power series.

cycloid:
y=-a+acos(theta)
x=a(theta)-asin(theta)
 
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There seem to be a lot of "limits of death" and "problems from hell" today. I'm afraid you must show some work before anyone assists you on your homework questions. Unfortunately, daring the reader to answer for you doesn't work! Further, you should post in the homework forums next time.

Welcome to PF!
 
My bad. Well, I know that the basics for taylor polynomials. for a cycloid,
I know that f(a)+ f'(a)(x-a)+ f''(a)(x-a)^2... will give me the right
answer but I don't know how to do this in parametric mode or what
really do other than what I've listed below. Thanks!

y=-a+acos(theta)
x=a(theta)-asin(theta)

so, dy/dx=-sin(theta)/1-cos(theta)

I also know that d(dy/dx)/dx=d^2y/dx^2
 
Problem from the sky

Ignoring homotheties, let the following cycloid:
x = t - sin t
y = 1 - cos t,
t in [0, 2pi].

From this, we have y' = dy/dx = (dy/dt) / (dx/dt) = (sin t) / (1 - cos t) = ... = cot (t/2), and then y'' = d(y')/dx = ... = -(1/4) [ cosec (t/2) ]^4, ..., "AND SO ON" :smile:

Maybe it will be interesting calculate the series at t = pi. Doing that and putting y^(m) := (d^m)y /(dx)^m, it is easy to see that y^(2n+1)[pi] = 0, and y^(2n)[pi] < 0, n = 1, 2, 3, ... .

The transcendental "cycloid function" y = cyc(x) is aproximately:
cyc(x) =~
2
-1/8 (x-pi)^2
-1/384 (x-pi)^4
-11/92160 (x-pi)^6
-73/10321920 (x-pi)^8
-887/1857945600 (x-pi)^10
-136883/3923981107200 (x-pi)^12
-7680089/2856658246041600 (x-pi)^14
-26838347/124654178009088000 (x-pi)^16
- ... "AND SO ON" :biggrin:

This function satisfies the brachistochrone equation:

y * (1 + y'^2) = 2 (*)​

However not all curves satisfying this equation are cycloids. To see that, think about inserting a horizontal line segment between two arcs of the same cycloid. It will be a solution of the differential equation (*).

Good luck.
 
mathwiz1234 said:
:devil: Can you handle it?

Find the first non-zero terms, the general term for the cycloid power series, and the interval of convergence for the cycloid power series.

cycloid:
y=-a+acos(theta)
x=a(theta)-asin(theta)
The problem is that the phrase "cycloid power series" makes no sense to me! I know what the power series representation for a function is but what function are you talking about? Do you mean power series representations for x and y separately?
 

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