Dark matter, entropy and gravity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between dark matter, black holes, and entropy, exploring how dark matter interacts with normal matter and the implications for thermodynamics and information loss. Participants raise questions about the nature of black holes as non-isolated systems and the behavior of dark matter in these contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if dark matter affects normal matter through gravity, then normal matter should also affect dark matter, proposing that black holes could attract both types of matter.
  • There is a question about whether information in normal matter could transform into dark matter, with a later reply suggesting that information might be transferred to dark matter rather than becoming it.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of black holes on entropy, questioning whether a black hole decreases in entropy as it consumes matter.
  • Another participant challenges the idea that dark matter has negative mass and would decrease the mass of a black hole, seeking clarification on this claim.
  • A participant asserts that dark matter follows the rules of thermodynamics and entropy, detailing characteristics of dark matter particles and their interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of dark matter and its interactions with black holes, with some agreeing on certain points while others challenge specific claims. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these interactions on entropy and information loss.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge potential logical failures and uncertainties in their reasoning, indicating a learning process. There are references to complex concepts such as thermodynamics and the nature of dark matter that may require further exploration.

Lethal_Firefly
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If dark matter affects normal matter (by gravity), does that mean that normal matter also affects dark matter? I think it does...

In which case;

Black holes could attract BOTH dark and normal matter?

Does this give any opportunity to "information loss"?
What if some information in normal matter does not "disappear", but it becomes dark matter?

Also, in thermodynamics, in all isolated systems, entropy level increases?

A black hole is not an isolated system, since matter that is outside goes into it (also, light).
Does that mean that the more a black hole devours, it becomes bigger, but also decreases in entropy?

Or,

Entropy becomes so BIG that it evaporates?

And if dark matter can be sucked in by black holes, that means it follows the rules of thermodynamics? Specifically, entropy?I am sorry if I have some logical failures in this, I am learning about awesome, exciting, and to me new physics :P.
 
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Why do you think dark matter has negative mass and would decrease the mass of the black hole? This is not at all true but I'm wondering where you ever heard such a thing.
 
phinds said:
Why do you think dark matter has negative mass and would decrease the mass of the black hole? This is not at all true but I'm wondering where you ever heard such a thing.

I don't think it does. Why do You think I think that?
 
Lethal_Firefly said:
I don't think it does. Why do You think I think that?

Guess I misunderstood what you said. Probably read it too quickly.
 
Lethal_Firefly said:
If dark matter affects normal matter (by gravity), does that mean that normal matter also affects dark matter? I think it does...

In which case;

Black holes could attract BOTH dark and normal matter?

yes and yes.

Does this give any opportunity to "information loss"?

What if some information in normal matter does not "disappear", but it becomes dark matter?

I would say that the information is transferred to dark matter, not that it becomes dark matter, in the same way that kinetic energy might be transferred from normal matter to dark matter. Indeed, information might reside in kinetic energy.

And if dark matter can be sucked in by black holes, that means it follows the rules of thermodynamics? Specifically, entropy?

In all dark matter theories of which I am aware, dark matter follows the rules of thermodynamics and entropy.

Operationally, dark matter is defined as not emitting photons, not interacting via QCD color charge, and being nearly collisionless. The main distinctions between dark matter particles involve self-interaction (or the lack thereof) via some new force that acts between dark matter particles, the number of kinds of dark matter particles, the mass of these particles and their mean velocity (related to their origin as thermal relics or otherwise), their status as fermions or bosons, and their cross-sections of interaction with ordinary matter (if any). Otherwise, it is just like any other kind of matter.
 

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