Programs Debt vs. Longer time to get degree

[Angry Citizen]

I strongly suspect that one of the reasons that I got the award is because I have been working full time over the span of my undergrad education.

This is pretty presumptuous. Word on the street (or convention floor) is, employers really don't care if you flipped a burger or not. Maybe it's just my experience hunting for an engineering internship, but that's what the recruiters were keen to mention.

 

[Robert1986]

This is pretty presumptuous. Word on the street (or convention floor) is, employers really don't care if you flipped a burger or not. Maybe it's just my experience hunting for an engineering internship, but that's what the recruiters were keen to mention.

No, your post is presumptuous.

First of all, I clearly said that I had a full-time job. How many burger-flippers do you think are full-time? Did you actually read what I wrote? Why on Earth would you presume that I had a burger-flipping job?


And I didn't even say anything about engineering, nor about getting hired by an engineering company, so what they think is, quite frankly, not that relevant in my case. But, for the record, I know of an engineering firm who WON'T hire someone who hasn't had a job during their college career.


So, if you want to go around acting like your really the smart one for going into debt (I assume you have debt, otherwise you wouldn't be so defensive about this topic), and I'm somehow "un-enlightened", or whatever, that's just fine with me. You can have your debt, but, guess what? I'm feeling pretty freakin' good sitting here with NO debt.

 

[Angry Citizen]

First of all, I clearly said that I had a full-time job. How many burger-flippers do you think are full-time? Did you actually read what I wrote? Why on Earth would you presume that I had a burger-flipping job?

Unless you're working in a field remotely applicable to whatever major you're in, then it might as well be burger flipping.

And I didn't even say anything about engineering, nor about getting hired by an engineering company, so what they think is, quite frankly, not that relevant in my case.

But it is for mine. Like I said, "maybe it's just my experience blah blah".

So, if you want to go around acting like your really the smart one for going into debt (I assume you have debt, otherwise you wouldn't be so defensive about this topic), and I'm somehow "un-enlightened", or whatever, that's just fine with me.

Chill out. I guarantee you no employer is going to keep someone who takes criticism as poorly as you do. Given that you apparently have a full-time job, how about you apply the same level of courtesy here that you do in the workplace?

For one, I'm not "acting like I'm really the smart one". I'm saying that I could not get a college education without debt. In fact, I wouldn't be alive right now if I hadn't taken on debt. Woe be to you if you randomly find yourself with a chronic illness - you might have to go into debt.

For two, I'm not getting defensive. The only one getting defensive is you. Case in point your extremely harsh reaction to my post when my harshest word was "presumptuous" - as I believe you said to me multiple times earlier.

For three, don't put un-enlightened in quotes as if I spoke it. You did; I didn't. Misattribution of quotes sure as hell won't win you any friends.

For four, like I said originally, good for you for escaping debt. The math will work out about even between us, I suspect. I'll have a job I like; you'll hopefully have a job you like. I'll be happy paying off some debt; you'll be happy spending years of your life working a job you'll never see again. Tomato, tomahto.

 

[Robert1986]

Unless you're working in a field remotely applicable to whatever major you're in, then it might as well be burger flipping.

Again, my experience tells me that this is not true.

Chill out. I guarantee you no employer is going to keep someone who takes criticism as poorly as you do. Given that you apparently have a full-time job, how about you apply the same level of courtesy here that you do in the workplace?

And what, not defend my positions? Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that I am treating anyone without courtesy. You said that I was being presumptuous. I said that you were being presumptuous. Where was the lack of courtesy?

For one, I'm not "acting like I'm really the smart one". I'm saying that I could not get a college education without debt. In fact, I wouldn't be alive right now if I hadn't taken on debt. Woe be to you if you randomly find yourself with a chronic illness - you might have to go into debt.

Obviously, if the only thing you have debt for is medical stuff, then we're talking something a little different. Though, that does not totally excuse debt in all cases.

For two, I'm not getting defensive. The only one getting defensive is you. Case in point your extremely harsh reaction to my post when my harshest word was "presumptuous" - as I believe you said to me multiple times earlier.

Was my post really that harsh? It didn't seem harsh to me. My apologies if it did.

But, why is it that you are allowed to critique my posts, but when I critique yours, I am being harsh?

For three, don't put un-enlightened in quotes as if I spoke it. You did; I didn't. Misattribution of quotes sure as hell won't win you any friends.

I agree completely. But, putting words in quotes does not always mean that the phrase is being attributed to a specific person. This was my intent. My apologies to everyone if I was unclear.

For four, like I said originally, good for you for escaping debt. The math will work out about even between us, I suspect. I'll have a job I like; you'll hopefully have a job you like. I'll be happy paying off some debt; you'll be happy spending years of your life working a job you'll never see again. Tomato, tomahto.

No, the math MIGHT work out the same, as long as you get a job and finish school and...

 

[Angry Citizen]

I said that you were being presumptuous.

No, you said I thought I was smarter than you.

No, the math MIGHT work out the same, as long as you get a job and finish school and...

And your job MIGHT have gotten you the fellowship. It might have been a waste of your time, in this sense.

Frankly, if I don't finish school, I'll have far more important things to worry about than some piddly debt. And not getting a job as a fresh-out-of-the-box engineer is pretty hard to do.

 

[elterrible]

Not even close to being true. I have a car. My wife has a car. We have no debt. We are currently saving money for a house (like 100% down.) We are not rich people.

The whole time you are saving to buy a house outright, your money spent on rent is going nowhere versus taking out a loan (while rates are insanely low right now) and making mortgage payments which would be giving you equity in something.

 

[Robert1986]

No, you said I thought I was smarter than you.



And your job MIGHT have gotten you the fellowship. It might have been a waste of your time, in this sense.

Frankly, if I don't finish school, I'll have far more important things to worry about than some piddly debt. And not getting a job as a fresh-out-of-the-box engineer is pretty hard to do.

OK, let me just say this: I have re-read some of my posts and I sound like an A-Hole! I didn't mean for them to come out this way. My "tone of voice" in my mind was quite different than the way it looks on the screen. Does this make sense? Anyway, my sincere apologies if I sound A-holeish. This is a topic about which I am very passionate, and so my posts seem more intense than I really want them to be.

So, again, my apologies. Now, let's just get back to arguing with cranks who think .9999 doesn't equal 1.

 

[Robert1986]

The whole time you are saving to buy a house outright, your money spent on rent is going nowhere versus taking out a loan (while rates are insanely low right now) and making mortgage payments which would be giving you equity in something.

True, true. But, there are some things to consider:

1) When you have a mortgage, you ARE paying rent. You are paying rent on money.

2) Yes, if you are paying on a mortgage, you are building up equity in a house. But, it is partial equity. That is, you have you don't have full equity in your house. We (my wife and I), however, will have full 100% equity in the pile of cash we are saving.

3) Also, consider that we plan to have enough money for a modest home in about 4-5 years. Now, this is quite a while, I agree. However, if you consider that during that time, most of your payment will be going toward interest, and not toward principal, you aren't really building up that much equity.

4) Now, I'm always saying "what if X happens", right? So its only fair that I apply that to my plan, isn't it? So, what if I'm not able to do this, for whatever reason? For example, what if I lost my job and couldn't contribute to the "house fund" for 6 months? Well, it would set me back 6 months. At the worst, it would set me back a year, if I had to dip into 6 months of the "house fund" (though using that much would be unlikely; we already have an emergency fund that will sustain us for several months.) If I had a mortgage, there is a pretty good chance that I would be foreclosed on. Now, how far back will that set me?


Now, I understand there are disadvantages to what I plan to do. And I view this decision as more of a personal one, in the sense that I won't think you are making a mistake if you get a (reasonable) mortgage. For me, however, I am ANTI-DEBT, and so I do not plan to get a mortgage.