Degenerate Fermi Gas: Why is it Called Degenerate?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the terminology and conceptual understanding of a degenerate Fermi gas, particularly why it is referred to as "degenerate." Participants explore the implications of energy levels being filled up to the Fermi level, the use of classical versus quantum mechanical approaches in calculations, and the treatment of the ground state in average occupation number calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether "degenerate" refers to all energy levels up to the Fermi level being filled or the occupation of all degeneracies of energy levels at absolute zero temperature.
  • Another participant states that "degenerate" means all energy levels below the Fermi energy are occupied, but expresses uncertainty about the origin of the term.
  • Concerns are raised about the use of classical momentum integration in deriving average occupation numbers for a degenerate Fermi gas, with a suggestion that a quantum mechanical approach could be more appropriate.
  • One participant notes that while calculating average particle number, the ground state (E=0) is not considered, leading to a question about the reasoning behind this exclusion.
  • Some participants discuss the simplicity of classical calculations compared to quantum mechanical treatments, with one expressing confusion about the absence of typical quantum mechanical elements in the discussion of degenerate Fermi gases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of classical versus quantum mechanical approaches, and there is no consensus on the exact meaning of "degenerate" in this context. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of excluding the ground state in calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of fully quantum mechanical treatments and the potential insights gained from classical approximations, but do not resolve the implications of these choices or the definitions involved.

mkbh_10
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Why is it called degenerate ??

Is it because all levels upto fermi level are filled or all degeneracies of the energy levels that are present occupied at T = 0k .

In deriving the average occupation no. for a deg fermi gas , we have used classical idea of momentum that is integrating over a sphere of p^2 dp , why not qntm mechanical operator form since this a quantum gas.

Also in calculating average N we have an integral of (E)^1/2 dE within limit 0 to Ef where Ef is fermi energy level , now while evaluating this we don't consider the E= 0 state i.e ground state because if we put 0 then avg N = 0 , what's the thought behind this ?


I had posted this in general section , got no reply , atleast someone reply here
 
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Degenerate just means all the energy levels below a certain level (the fermi energy) are taken. I don't know exactly why we use the term degenerate...but we do.

We use classical-style calculations for simplicity. You can do a fully quantum mechanical treatment of a degenerate gas; however, it's a lot more complicated. You can get a lot of insights by doing the classical treatment, and the approximations aren't all that bad.

It's analogous to using Newton's laws for dynamics instead of Einstein's special relativity. It's simpler and the answers aren't that bad.
 
Matterwave said:
We use classical-style calculations for simplicity. You can do a fully quantum mechanical treatment of a degenerate gas; however, it's a lot more complicated. You can get a lot of insights by doing the classical treatment, and the approximations aren't all that bad.
Where are the supposed classical bits? It all seems fully quantum mechanical to me.
 
Perhaps you are right and they are all QM. I may have been confused since I saw none of the regular QM "stuff" (e.g. wavefunctions, operators, bra-ket notation, etc) when dealing with degenerate Fermi gasses.
 

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