Derek Muller and UCLA Prof. Alexander Kusenko -- Downwind Physics Wager

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around a wager between Derek Muller and UCLA professor Alexander Kusenko regarding whether an unpowered car can travel faster than the wind when going downwind. The conversation explores the kinematics of wind forces and the understanding of transport phenomena in this context, questioning the completeness of theoretical models without experimental validation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Derek Muller claims that an unpowered car can indeed go faster than the wind, while Alexander Kusenko argues that this is misleading due to the wind's deceleration and the car's inertia.
  • Some participants suggest that the kinematics and behavior of propellers are well understood, indicating that the phenomenon can be analyzed correctly, despite common misconceptions.
  • There is a suggestion that many people do not fully analyze the situation before declaring it impossible, which has led to extensive discussions and wagers on the topic.
  • One participant highlights the importance of understanding conservation of energy in this scenario as a key aspect of the discussion.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for consistency in the frame of reference when analyzing the situation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the completeness of the theoretical understanding of the scenario. While some believe the topic has been largely settled in previous discussions, others indicate that misconceptions persist, leading to ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

There are references to multiple discussions on this topic, suggesting a history of exploration and contention regarding the physics involved. The conversation indicates that assumptions about the behavior of the system may not be fully addressed in some analyses.

Jay_
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Derek Muller is the Veritasium YouTube channel host and he had a wager against UCLA professor Alexander Kusenko on whether a unpowered car going downwind can go faster than the wind.

Derek Muller said it can go faster than the wind, while Alexander Kusenko said it only seems that way because the wind slows down and the car continues to move on its own inertia.

I guess many of you must have been following this wager and the surprising thing is Derek Muller won this wager for $10,000.
https://www.iflscience.com/physics/youtuber-derek-muller-won-a-10000-physics-bet-against-professor/

This leads to my question:
Do we not really understand the kinematics of the wind forces and transport phenomenon fully enough to model this correctly and obtain the right understanding without Derek running an experiment? Or was the professor just not taking everything into consideration when he thought of his explanation here?


What wasn't considered when Alexander Kusenko was explaining that was explained?
 
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It's really not surprising to most long term members here, and it's been discussed extensively many, many times. There's a currently active thread that discusses this exact video and wager here (the video discussion is a couple pages in), but there are older discussions here, here, here, and I'm sure several other places that didn't show up in my 10 seconds of searching. As you can see, this was really a hot topic about a decade ago here, and has been pretty settled here ever since, but part of what makes it so intriguing to so many people is that it is very counterintuitive, which leads a lot of (even very qualified) people to confidently proclaim it must be impossible.

We definitely understand the behavior of propellers and kinematics well enough to easily analyze such a vehicle, and show that it is possible, but usually, people don't bother to fully analyze it in a correct and comprehensive way before just declaring it impossible, hence the (extended) discussions and wagers.
 
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I guess the main thing is like you mentioned they don't bother to fully analyze it. I will look at the other links. An interesting conversation on this would be understanding the conservation of energy in this scenario.
 
Thanks @cjl for posting the links to all of the discussions (including the very good current one) -- you beat me to it. :smile:

@Jay_ please continue any discussion in the current thread. Thank you.
 
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