Derivation of E=mc^2 in Wikipedia

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the mass-energy equivalence formula E=mc² as presented in a Wikipedia article, specifically in the context of relativistic kinetic energy. Participants explore the reasoning behind the relationship between kinetic energy and rest energy, as well as the implications of these concepts in relativistic physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the reasoning that the rest energy must equal mc² simply because the kinetic energy at zero speed is represented as a difference of energies.
  • Another participant suggests that the energy required to accelerate a particle from rest to a speed v can be understood as a change in the quantity γmc², implying a relationship between mass and energy.
  • A third participant clarifies that while Wikipedia provides a formula for kinetic energy, it is important to distinguish between kinetic energy and rest energy, noting that the rest energy is not zero when the velocity is zero.
  • There is a mention of total energy being the sum of kinetic and mass energy, with an equation provided to illustrate this relationship.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the derivation and seeks a simpler explanation, indicating a need for further exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the clarity of the derivation or the reasoning behind the mass-energy equivalence. There are multiple viewpoints on how to interpret the relationship between kinetic energy and rest energy.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the derivation of E=mc² and the implications of the equations presented. There are references to conservation of four-momentum and the need for further exploration of related threads for clarity.

birulami
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy#Relativistic_kinetic_energy_of_rigid_bodies" derives the kinetic energy of a rigid body at relativistic speed to be

[tex]E_k = m\gamma c^2 - m c^2[/tex]​

The continue to say:
The mathematical by-product of this calculation is the mass-energy equivalence formula—the body at rest must have energy content equal to: [itex]E_{rest}=m c^2[/itex]

Can anybody explain this reasoning? Just because the zero value of the kinetic energy at zero speed has the representation [itex]x - x[/itex] does not mean that the rest energy must be [itex]x[/itex], right? Or is that the reasoning?

Thanks,
Harald.
 
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The reasoning is just that the energy required to accelerate a particle from 0 to v is equal to the change in the quantity [itex]\gamma m c^2[/itex], so it makes sense to think of that quantity as representing a kind of energy.

I think you have to look at conservation of four-momentum to really justify the equivalence between mass and energy.
 
There's an important distinction here; Wikipedia calculates the kinetic energy as what you listed above, however, the rest energy is not the kinetic energy, obviously, because the kinetic energy is obviously zero when v = 0.

So what they mean is that
[tex]E_t = E_k + E_m = m\gamma c^2 - m c^2 + m c^2 = m\gamma c^2[/tex]

Or, equivalently,

[tex]E_r = E_m = E_t - E_k = (m\gamma c^2) - (m\gamma c^2 - m c^2) = m c^2[/tex]Where [tex]E_m[/tex] is the mass energy, [tex]E_t[/tex] is the total energy, and [tex]E_r[/tex] is the rest energy.

Sorry if that was confusing.
 
Don't worry, this is not confusing. But it somehow gets me where I started. I was after a simple derivation for E=mc^2, found a link to Wikipedia and now I am back with [itex]E_t=m\gamma c^2[/itex] asking where this comes. Hmm, yes, trivially it is [itex]E_t = E_k + E_m[/itex]:rolleyes: So I need to look closer to other recommendations in this other thread, I am afraid.

Thanks,
Harald.
 

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