Derivation of non decaying mode in cosmology

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving a specific result related to metric perturbations in cosmology, specifically the expression for \(\phi_k\) in terms of the Hubble parameter \(H\) and its time derivative \(\dot{H}\). The context involves understanding the behavior of cosmological models and perturbations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss integrating expressions involving the Hubble parameter and its derivatives, exploring integration techniques such as integration by parts. There are attempts to clarify the relationships between different variables and expressions, particularly focusing on the implications of rewriting integrals in terms of \(a\) and \(H\).

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and suggestions for approaching the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding integration techniques, but there is still uncertainty about specific steps and the handling of terms in the integrals. Participants are actively questioning and clarifying their understanding of the derivation process.

Contextual Notes

There is an emphasis on the need to understand the relationship between \(H\) and \(a\) without relying on specific forms of \(a(t)\). Participants are also considering the implications of small parameters in their expansions, which may affect the validity of certain terms in their calculations.

smallgirl
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Homework Statement


Derive the following result : \phi_k=-C_1(k)\frac{\dot{H}(t)}{H(t)}.

Homework Equations



\phi_k=C_1(k)\Bigg(1-\frac{H}{a}\int\limits^{t}a(t)dt\Bigg)

a(t)= a(t_i)\exp\Bigg(H_i(t-t_i)+\dot{H}_i\frac{(t^2-t_i^2)}{2}\Bigg)

The Attempt at a Solution


So I stuck a(t) into \phi_k and then expanded the exponential and integrated. Just ended up with a mess really.
 
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I assume that ##\phi## is the metric perturbation and that you mean
$$ \phi_k = - C_1(k) \frac{\dot{H}}{H^{2}}.$$
Note the ##H^2## in the denominator.

If so, there is kind of a bizarre trick to use here. First, the fact that ##H = \dot{a}/a##, implies that
$$ a dt =H^{-1} da .~~~(*)$$
The idea then is to integrate by parts to show that
$$ \int a dt = \int H^{-1} da = H^{-1} a- \int a~ d \left( H^{-1} \right).$$
It seems weird, but this is formally ok to do. Now, we want to write
$$ d \left( H^{-1} \right) = \frac{ d \left( H^{-1} \right)}{dt} dt $$
and use (*) again to write the ##dt## integral as one over ##da##. Then it's one more integration by parts to get the term you want, plus another integral that you can see is small for ## \dot{H} \ll H^2##.

I had to give a lot of the problem away to explain the trick, but it's probably confusing enough that you still have a lot of work to do for it. I'll try to help with followup questions as needed.
 
fzero said:
I assume that ##\phi## is the metric perturbation and that you mean
$$ \phi_k = - C_1(k) \frac{\dot{H}}{H^{2}}.$$
Note the ##H^2## in the denominator.

If so, there is kind of a bizarre trick to use here. First, the fact that ##H = \dot{a}/a##, implies that
$$ a dt =H^{-1} da .~~~(*)$$
The idea then is to integrate by parts to show that
$$ \int a dt = \int H^{-1} da = H^{-1} a- \int a~ d \left( H^{-1} \right).$$
It seems weird, but this is formally ok to do. Now, we want to write
$$ d \left( H^{-1} \right) = \frac{ d \left( H^{-1} \right)}{dt} dt $$
and use (*) again to write the ##dt## integral as one over ##da##. Then it's one more integration by parts to get the term you want, plus another integral that you can see is small for ## \dot{H} \ll H^2##.

I had to give a lot of the problem away to explain the trick, but it's probably confusing enough that you still have a lot of work to do for it. I'll try to help with followup questions as needed.
Hey,

Thank you so much for the help but to solve the problem I have to put a(t) into \phi_k or have I missed something? I know that at some point I need to do an expansion in \frac{\dot{H_i}}{H^2_i}So following what you have said I have d(H^{-1})=\frac{d(H^{-1})}{dt}

and dt=\frac{H^{-1}}{a}da\longrightarrow d(H^{-1})=\frac{d(H^{-1})}{dt}H^{-1}\frac{da}{a} which looks hideous. Do I then stick this into the second term on the RHS of the integral? and then integrate by parts?
 
Last edited:
smallgirl said:
Hey,

Thank you so much for the help but to solve the problem I have to put a(t) into \phi_k or have I missed something? I know that at some point I need to do an expansion in \frac{\dot{H_i}}{H^2_i}

With this method of doing the problem, we don't need to know anything special about ##a(t)## other than ## H = \dot{a}{a}##. So you don't need to use the expression for ##a## that you quoted.

So following what you have said I have d(H^{-1})=\frac{d(H^{-1})}{dt}

and dt=\frac{H^{-1}}{a}da\longrightarrow d(H^{-1})=\frac{d(H^{-1})}{dt}H^{-1}\frac{da}{a} which looks hideous. Do I then stick this into the second term on the RHS of the integral? and then integrate by parts?

Yes, integrate by parts
$$\int u dv = uv - \int v du$$
with ##u=(H^{-1}/a)( d(H^{-1})/dt)## and ##v=a##. The integrated part gives the expression that you were asked to show. The remaining integral is a mess of time derivatives that you should be able to argue is much smaller than the leading term.
 
Ahh thank you! Will have a work through it and see what happens.
 
Ok, so I've looked at it, and something doesn't seem quite right, I am integrating over da, and so if I set v=a, then dv=da but then what happens to my da and what happens to the second a in the integral?
 
smallgirl said:
Ok, so I've looked at it, and something doesn't seem quite right, I am integrating over da, and so if I set v=a, then dv=da but then what happens to my da and what happens to the second a in the integral?

You've got a stray ##1/a##, so let me back up a step to where we had
$$ \int a~d\left(H^{-1}\right) = \int a~\frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} dt = \int \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} da. $$
We have to integrate this by parts, which gives
$$ \int \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} da = \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} a- \int a ~d\left( \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} \right) .$$
The integrand on the RHS should be thought of as ## d(\cdots) = [ d(\cdots)/dt] dt##.
 
So I have now

\int \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} da = \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} a- \int a ~\frac{d}{dt}\left( \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} \right)dt

And I want to integrate the integral on the RHS by parts. To do this, I (assume)
dv=a and

u=\frac{d}{dt}\Bigg(\frac{d(H^{-1})}{dt}H^{-1}\Bigg)
 
Whenever you have ##a dt## you want to rewrite it as ##H^{-1} da##. If you keep integrating by parts you get a series with terms like
$$\left( H^{-1} \frac{d}{dt} \right)^n H^{-1}.$$
This series is what you want to truncate to the first term.
 
  • #10
Thank you so much, after doing the integrals about 4 times to see the series appear, I was able to see what I wanted. Thank you so much for your help and patience.
 

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