Derivation of the Proca equation from the Proca Lagrangian

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Proca equation from the Proca Lagrangian, focusing on the application of the Euler-Lagrange equation. Participants explore the necessary steps for differentiation and index manipulation within the context of theoretical physics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance in deriving the Proca equation using the Proca Lagrangian and expresses difficulty with differentiation and index handling.
  • Another participant suggests raising and lowering indices to match the derivative operator and provides a specific expression for the derivative of the Lagrangian.
  • A participant reports success in deriving the Proca equation after applying the advice given, detailing the steps taken to manipulate the Lagrangian and calculate the necessary derivatives.
  • A later post questions whether there is a difference between two forms of the Euler-Lagrange equation, specifically regarding the raising and lowering of indices in the vector field notation.
  • One participant asserts that there is no difference between the two forms, stating they are connected through index manipulation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the steps to derive the Proca equation, but there is a minor disagreement regarding the equivalence of two forms of the Euler-Lagrange equation, which remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the implications of raising and lowering indices and the specific notation used in the context of the Proca equation derivation.

timewalker
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How to show the Proca equation by using the given Proca Lagrangian?
Surely, I know the Euler-Lagrange equation, but I can't solve this differentiation!(TT)

The given Proca lagrangian is,
\mathcal{L}= -\frac{1}{16\pi}(\partial^{\mu}A^{\nu}-\partial^{\nu}A^{\mu})(\partial_{\mu}A_{\nu}-\partial_{\nu}A_{\mu})+ \frac{1}{8 \pi} (\frac{mc}{\hbar})^2 A^{\nu} A_{\nu}

and the Euler-Lagrangian equation is,
\partial_{\mu}(\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu} A^{\nu})}) = \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial A^\nu}

At first, I just tried to solve

\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}A^{\nu})}= \frac{\partial}{\partial(\partial_{\nu}A^{\mu})}(-\frac{1}{16 \pi}(\partial^{\mu}A^{\nu}-\partial{^\nu}A^{\mu})(\partial_{\mu}A_{\nu}-\partial_{\nu}A_{\mu})+\cdots)

but I think I am misunderstand and not very well to handle these indices. So I think I can understand if I can see correct solving procedure. Please help me :(
 
Last edited:
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Hi,
you need to raise and lower the indices so they match your derivative-operator, i.e. write

\partial^\mu A^\nu = g^{\mu \alpha} \partial_\alpha A^\nu

then you can use
\frac{\partial}{\partial (\partial_\alpha A^\beta)} \partial_\mu A^\nu = \delta^\alpha_\mu \delta^\nu_\beta

Hope this helps,

torus
 
Thank you so much! After I see your reply, I thought a little bit and I got right answer! :)
Let me finish this post. :D

Now we have the Proca Lagrangian given

\mathcal{L}=-\frac{1}{16 \pi} (\partial^{\mu} A^{\nu} - \partial^{\nu} A^{\mu} )(\partial^{\mu} A^{\nu} - \partial^{\nu} A^{\mu} ) + \frac{1}{8 \pi} (\frac{mc}{\hbar})^2 A_{\nu} A^{\nu}

Here we use the index lowering/raising as 'torus' said,

\partial^{\mu} A^{\nu} = g^{\mu \alpha} \partial_{\alpha} A^{\nu}
\partial_{\mu} A_{\nu} = g_{\nu \gamma} \partial_{\mu} A^{\gamma}

then we have the Lagrangian in a modified form.

\mathcal{L}=-\frac{1}{16 \pi} (g^{\mu \alpha} \partial_{\alpha} A^{\nu} - g^{\nu \beta} \partial_{\beta} A^{\mu} )(g_{\nu \gamma} \partial_{\mu} A^{\gamma} - g_{\mu \delta} \partial_{\nu} A^{\delta} ) + \frac{1}{8 \pi} (\frac{mc}{\hbar})^2 A_{\nu} A^{\nu}

Now expand the parenthesis in the first term.

(g^{\mu \alpha} \partial_{\alpha} A^{\nu} - g^{\nu \beta} \partial_{\beta} A^{\mu} )(g_{\nu \gamma} \partial_{\mu} A^{\gamma} - g_{\mu \delta} \partial_{\nu} A^{\delta} ) :: Let this be (*).
<br /> =g^{\mu \alpha} g_{\nu \gamma}(\partial_{\alpha} A^{\nu})(\partial_{\mu}A^{\gamma})<br /> -g^{\mu \alpha} g_{\mu \delta}(\partial_{\alpha} A^{\nu})(\partial_{\nu} A^{\delta})<br /> -g^{\nu \beta} g_{\nu \gamma} (\partial_{\beta} A^{\mu})(\partial_{\mu} A^{\gamma}) +g^{\nu \beta} g_{\mu \delta} (\partial_{\beta} A^{\mu})(\partial_{\nu} A^{\delta})

Now we calculate \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\rho} A^{\sigma})} to get the Euler-Lagrange equation that \partial_{\rho} ( \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\rho} A^{\sigma})}) = \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial A^{\sigma}}.

\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\rho} A^{\sigma})}
=-\frac{1}{16 \pi}\frac{\partial(*) }{\partial (\partial_{\rho} A^{\sigma})} +0

Using the product rule of the differentiation and \frac{\partial A^{i}}{\partial A^{j}}=\delta_{i}^{j}, \frac{\partial(*) }{\partial (\partial_{\rho} A^{\sigma})} is,

\frac{\partial(*) }{\partial (\partial_{\rho} A^{\sigma})} = 4\partial^{\rho} A_{\sigma} - 4 \partial_{\sigma} A^{\rho}

Therefore

\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\rho} A^{\sigma})} = -\frac{1}{4 \pi} (\partial^{\rho} A_{\sigma} - \partial_{\sigma} A^{\rho} )

and, using \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial A^{\sigma}} = \frac{1}{4 \pi} (\frac{mc}{\hbar})^2 A^{\sigma}, the Euler-Lagrange equation yields

\partial_{\mu} (\partial^{\mu} A_{\nu} - \partial_{\nu} A^{\mu} ) + (\frac{mc}{\hbar})^2 A^{\nu} = 0 Q.E.D.

=======================================================================

P.S. Is there any difference between taking the Proca equation by solving
\partial_{\mu}(\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\mu} A_{\nu})}) = \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial A_{\nu}}
and
\partial_{\mu}(\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\mu} A^{\nu})}) = \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial A^{\nu}}
??

Actually my textbook(D.J. Griffiths, Introduction to Elementary Particles, 2nd Edition, Chap. 10.2 Example 3) supposed the vector field A^{\mu} but solved the first one. I can't agree with that so I asked about the second one. Is there any problem?
 
Last edited:
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No, there is no difference as they are connected by just raising/lowering the index nu.
 
thanx timewalker
 

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