Derivations of Euler equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation and properties of the Euler equations, specifically focusing on the relationship between variations and derivatives, represented by the expression \(\delta\partial (x) =\partial \delta (x)\). Participants explore the implications of this relationship and seek clarity on its validity and underlying principles.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that \(\delta\) is an operation rather than a variable, proposing that the expression reflects the commutativity of the variation and the derivative.
  • Another participant describes the process of varying a function \(f(x)\) by an infinitesimal amount and derives the relationship \(\delta \left(\frac{\partial f(x)}{\partial x} \right) = \frac{\partial(\delta f(x))}{\partial x}\) from this perspective.
  • A different viewpoint introduces the chain rule to argue that \(\partial(\delta f(x)) = f(x)\partial\delta + \delta\partial f(x)\), suggesting that the term \(\partial\delta\) can be approximated as zero under certain conditions.
  • In contrast, another participant emphasizes the need for rigor, stating that \(\delta\) and \(\partial\) do not have inherent meaning without context, and advocates for a first-order Taylor expansion to clarify the relationship.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation and implications of the relationship between variations and derivatives. There is no consensus on the most rigorous approach or the validity of the proposed arguments.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments rely on assumptions about the behavior of infinitesimals and the neglect of higher-order terms, which may not be universally accepted. The discussion reflects varying levels of rigor and precision in mathematical treatment.

zwoodrow
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Every textbook i find breezes over the following point:

[tex]\delta[/tex][tex]\partial[/tex] (x) =[tex]\partial[/tex] [tex]\delta[/tex] (x)

where delta is just the variation. Someone asked me why that's true and i guessed the only thing i could say was that delta is an operation not a variable so this is more like an algebraric statement of the commutivity of delta and taking a derivative. Is this right or is there a more clear explanation.
 
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I always view it as follows.
What we do, is changing some function f(x) by an infinitesimal amount, i.e. replace
[tex]f(x) \to f(x) + \delta f(x) \qquad\qquad(*)[/tex]
(and ignore higher order variations).

So in this notation, where delta indicates the infinitesimal change, it should also be true that
[tex]\frac{\partial f(x)}{\partial x} \to \frac{\partial f(x)}{\partial x} + \delta \left(\frac{\partial f(x)}{\partial x} \right)[/tex]
(which is just statement (*) again for another function g(x) = df(x)/dx).

Now if you differentiate (*) you get an equation from which it follows immediately that
[tex]\delta \left(\frac{\partial f(x)}{\partial x} \right) = \frac{\partial(\delta f(x))}{\partial x}[/tex]
 
Is there a way to argue that (using the chain rule)
[tex]\partial[/tex]([tex]\delta[/tex]f(x) ) = f(x)[tex]\partial[/tex][tex]\delta[/tex] + [tex]\delta[/tex][tex]\partial[/tex]f(x)
and then argue that[tex]\partial[/tex][tex]\delta[/tex] is a second order differential that can be tossed out as approx 0 giving the result

[tex]\partial[/tex]([tex]\delta[/tex]f(x) ) = [STRIKE]f(x)[tex]\partial[/tex][tex]\delta[/tex][/STRIKE] [tex]\rightarrow[/tex] 0 + [tex]\delta[/tex][tex]\partial[/tex]f(x)
 
Not if you want to be rigorous.
Because [itex]\delta[/itex] in itself doesn't mean anything, just like [itex]\partial[/itex] doesn't mean anything.

The object you are looking at is [itex]\delta f(x)[/itex].
If you want to be precise, you can use a first order Taylor expansion
[tex]f(x) \to F(x) = f(a) + f'(a) (x - a) + \mathcal{O}((x - a)^2)[/tex]
where you call [tex]\delta = f'(a) (x - a)[/tex] and neglect the quadratic terms.
 

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