Generalising the Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields

In summary: That's a good question. In general, you would expect the derivatives to vanish at infinity. However, it may depend on the specific system and boundary conditions. In summary, the conversation discusses generalizing the Euler-Lagrange equation for a higher-order derivative Lagrangian, with extra terms in the variation of the Lagrangian density. These terms involve derivatives of the field and may or may not vanish at infinity, depending on the specific system and boundary conditions.
  • #1
spaghetti3451
1,344
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The Euler-Lagrange equation obtained from the action ##S=\int\ d^{4}x\ \mathcal{L}(\phi,\partial_{\mu}\phi)## is ##\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial\phi}-\partial_{\mu}\big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\phi)}\big)=0##.

My goal is to generalise the Euler-Lagrange equation for the action ##S=\int\ d^{4}x\ \mathcal{L}(\phi,\partial_{\mu}\phi, \partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)##.

The variation of the Lagrangian density this time contains the extra term ##\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\delta(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)##. Now,

##\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\delta(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)##

##=\partial_{\mu}\Big[\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\partial_{\nu}(\delta\phi)\Big]-\partial_{\mu}\Big[\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\Big]\partial_{\nu}(\delta\phi)##

##=\partial_{\mu}\Big[\partial_{\nu}\big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\delta\phi\big)-\partial_{\nu}\big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\big)\delta\phi\Big]-\Big[\partial_{\nu}\Big(\partial_{\mu}\big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\big)\delta\phi\Big)-\partial_{\nu}\partial_{\mu}\Big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\Big)\delta\phi\Big]##

Now, in the fourth term, ##\partial_{\nu}\partial_{\mu}\Big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\Big)=0## for arbitrary ##\delta\phi## - this is the new term in the Euler-Lagrange equation.

The second and third terms must give zero, by Gauss' theorem and under the assumption that the field vanishes at spatial or temporal infinity.

What do I do about the first term? Should I have to introduce a constraint on the derivative ##\partial_{\nu}\big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\delta\phi\big)## - I don't want to, because it's not physical.
 
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  • #2
You don't do anything about the first term. It becomes part of the new Euler-Lagrange equations. Every time you make the Lagrangian depend on a higher order derivative, the Euler-Lagrange equations increase in order.
 
  • #3
Well, at least I need to factor out ##\delta\phi## from the first term ##\partial_{\mu}\Big[\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\partial_{\nu}(\delta\phi)\Big]##, don't I?

Could you suggest a way in which this could be done?
 
  • #4
failexam said:
Could you suggest a way in which this could be done?
Sorry I got it wrong, the first term doesn't remain. The fourth one does, since it is the only term that does not go away with integration by parts. The first three terms are boundary terms, since they are integrals of a divergence.
 
  • #5
Hmm...

Well, if I integrate the term ##\partial_{\mu}\Big[\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\partial_{\nu}(\delta\phi)\Big]## by parts, then the boundary term is ##\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\partial_{\nu}(\delta\phi)##, but to set this boundary term to zero, I need to assume that ##\delta(\partial_{\nu}\phi)## is zero at temporal and spatial infinity. Isn't this a little unphysical?
 
  • #6
Let us make the usual assumption that ##\delta \phi## vanishes at infinity. That means ##\delta \phi## gets closer and closer to ##0## as the point in question gets closer and closer to infinity (this can be easily formulated more rigorously). Now, I do believe there is an extra assumption that ##\partial_\nu(\delta\phi)## also converges to ##0## as you go to infinity. This assumption actually seems very reasonable to me, because otherwise you would have a field that is rapidly oscillating as you go to infinity.
 
  • #7
Hmm...

Would you also expect all the higher-order derivatives of the field to vanish at the boundary?
 
Last edited:

1. What is the Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields?

The Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields is a fundamental equation in theoretical physics that describes the dynamics of a scalar field. It is derived from the principle of least action and is used to find the equations of motion for the field.

2. How is the Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields different from the one for classical mechanics?

The Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields is similar to the one for classical mechanics, but it takes into account the fact that the field can vary continuously in space and time. This means that the field can have infinitely many degrees of freedom, making the equation more complex.

3. Can the Euler-Lagrange equation be extended to other types of fields?

Yes, the Euler-Lagrange equation can be generalized to describe the dynamics of other types of fields, such as vector fields or tensor fields. Each type of field will have its own corresponding Euler-Lagrange equation.

4. What are the applications of the Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields?

The Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields is used in many areas of theoretical physics, such as quantum field theory, classical field theory, and general relativity. It is also used in practical applications, such as in the study of fluid dynamics and electromagnetism.

5. Is the Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields difficult to solve?

The Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields can be difficult to solve analytically, especially for complex systems. However, with the use of numerical methods and computer simulations, it is possible to find solutions for many practical situations.

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