Derivative of unit vector in spherical coords.

In summary, the homework equation says that the angles at which the vectors are located are equal, the vectors have the same magnitude, and the vectors are perpendicular to each other.
  • #1
WendysRules
37
3

Homework Statement


Given ## d \vec r = dr \hat r + r d \theta \hat {\theta} + r \sin \theta d \phi \hat {\phi}.## Find ## d \hat r , d \hat {\theta} , d \hat {\phi}. ##

Homework Equations


I know that ## d \hat {e_j} = \omega^i_j \hat {e_i} ## and that ## \omega_{ij}=- \omega_{ji} ## and ## 0 = d \sigma^i + \omega^i_j \wedge \sigma^j ## and ##d^2(r) = 0 ## and lastly, ## \omega_{ij}= \hat e_i \cdot d \hat e_j##

The Attempt at a Solution


Putting answers up here, as my work is below:[/B]
## d \hat r = d \theta \hat \theta + sin\theta d\phi \hat \phi##
## d\hat \theta = -d\theta \hat r - cos \theta d \phi \hat \phi ##
## d \hat \phi = -sin\theta d\phi \hat r + cos \theta d \phi \hat \theta ##
Which looks... wrong?

Using the above, we can get:
## d \hat r = \omega^r_r \hat r + \omega^\theta_r \hat \theta + \omega^\phi_r \hat \phi ##
## d \hat \theta = \omega^r_\theta \hat r + \omega^\theta_\theta \hat \theta + \omega^\phi_\theta \hat \phi ##
## d \hat \phi = \omega^r_\phi \hat r + \omega^\theta_\phi \hat \theta + \omega^\phi_\phi \hat \phi ##
We also must use our torsion condition thus... we get:
## 0 = d(dr) + \omega^r_r \wedge dr + \omega^r_\theta \wedge r d \theta + \omega^r_\phi \wedge r \sin \theta d \phi ##
## 0 = d( r d \theta) + \omega^\theta_r \wedge dr + \omega^\theta_\theta \wedge r d \theta + \omega^\theta_\phi \wedge r \sin \theta d \phi ##
## 0 = d ( r sin\theta d \phi) + \omega^\phi_r \wedge dr + \omega^\phi_\theta \wedge r d \theta + \omega^\phi_\phi \wedge r \sin \theta d \phi ##

Expanding out our derivatives, we get:
## 0 = 0 + \omega^r_r \wedge dr + \omega^r_\theta \wedge r d \theta + \omega^r_\phi \wedge r \sin \theta d \phi ##
## 0 = dr \wedge d \theta + \omega^\theta_r \wedge dr + \omega^\theta_\theta \wedge r d \theta + \omega^\theta_\phi \wedge r \sin \theta d \phi ##
## 0 = sin\theta dr \wedge d \phi + rcos\theta d \theta \wedge d \phi + \omega^\phi_r \wedge dr + \omega^\phi_\theta \wedge r d \theta + \omega^\phi_\phi \wedge r \sin \theta d \phi ##

Solving our first equation, I see that ##\omega^r_r= 0, \omega^r_\theta = a d \theta, \omega^r_\phi = b d\phi##, and using our metric compatibility, we know that ## \omega^\theta_r= - a d \theta , \omega^\phi_r = - bd\phi## where a, b are unknowns so far.
From second torsion condition, I see that ##\omega^\theta_\theta = 0 , \omega^\theta_\phi = cd\phi## which forces ## \omega^\phi_\theta = - cd\phi## where c is an unknown. For my 3rd torsion condition, I see that ##\omega^\phi_\phi = 0 ## Thus, plugging these into my torsion condition I see...
The first one turns into:
## 0 = 0 + a d \theta \wedge r d \theta + b d\phi \wedge r \sin \theta d \phi ## which does equal 0 for any value of a, b.
The second one turns into:
## 0 = dr \wedge d \theta + - a d \theta \wedge dr + 0 + cd\phi \wedge r \sin \theta d \phi ## which only works if a=-1, but will work for any value of c. (For why, a=-1 works, notice that if I flip my basis, I get ## 0 = dr \wedge d \theta + (- a) - dr \wedge d\theta + 0 + cd\phi \wedge r \sin \theta d \phi ## which will only make the ## dr \wedge d \theta ## vanish if a = -1. )
The third one turns into:
## 0 = sin\theta dr \wedge d \phi + rcos\theta d \theta \wedge d \phi + - bd\phi \wedge dr + - cd\phi \wedge r d \theta + 0 ## where only if ## b = -sin\theta and c=-cos\theta ## will satisfy this condition. To see why, we notice that ## 0 = sin\theta dr \wedge d \phi + rcos\theta d \theta \wedge d \phi + - (-sin) d\phi \wedge dr + -(cos)d\phi \wedge r d \theta ## which becomes ## 0 = sin\theta dr \wedge d \phi + rcos\theta d \theta \wedge d \phi -sin\theta dr \wedge d \phi + r(cos\theta)d \theta \wedge d \phi## which causes all of our terms to vanish, woo.

However, when plugging this back to get my derivatives of my unit vectors, I get:
## d \hat r = d\theta \hat \theta + sin\theta d\theta \hat \phi ##
## d \hat \theta = -d\theta \hat r + cos\theta d\theta \hat \phi ##
## d \hat \phi = -sin\theta \hat r + -cos\theta \hat \theta ##
Which looks... wrong? I don't think this is right, maybe there isn't a sum over the i's? But then if I use the fact that ##\omega_{ij}=-\omega_{ji} ## I see that ##\omega_{12} = -d \theta## and ##\omega_{21}= d\theta##, ##\omega_{13} = -sin\theta d \phi## and ##\omega_{31} = sin\theta d\phi## ##\omega_{23}=cos\theta d\phi## and ##\omega_{32} = -cos\theta d\phi## which confirms metric compatibility, since for all i,j did ##\omega_{ij}=- \omega_{ji}## (can provide work if needed, this post is getting long!)
 
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  • #2
Why do you think it is wrong? Apart from the fact that you have missed the differentials in the last expression and only used ##d\theta## everywhere for the others.
 
  • #3
Orodruin said:
Why do you think it is wrong? Apart from the fact that you have missed the differentials in the last expression and only used ##d\theta## everywhere for the others.
Oops haha, I got lazy and copy and pasted wrong terms since the post got long. On paper I have:
## d \hat r = d \theta \hat \theta + sin\theta d\phi \hat \phi##
## d\hat \theta = -d\theta \hat r - cos \theta d \phi \hat \phi ##
## d \hat \phi = -sin\theta d\phi \hat r + cos \theta d \phi \hat \theta ## I'll edit this into my first post.

EDIT: Just realized that I'm not talking about curvature.

I guess it should make sense given that these are only my *first* derivatives, so my ## d(\hat r) ## should'nt vanish
 
  • #4
You must have terms involving ##\hat r##. Compare with the case of polar coordinates in the plane.
 
  • #5
Orodruin said:
You must have terms involving ##\hat r##. Compare with the case of polar coordinates in the plane.
Okay, I think i found my confusion after I woke up this morning. The problem I did before this had us basically compute the same things, however, our line element was ##ds^2=r^2d \theta^2 + r^2sin^2 \theta d \phi^2 ## which would be a 2d sphere with a basis ## {rd\theta, rsin\theta d\phi}## in this scenario, I took it as saying r=constant, and when i expanded my derivatives in my torsion condition, they vanished i.e ## d(r d\theta) = dr \wedge d\theta + r d^2 \theta = 0+0## because dr=0 since r=const. Since it was late, I expected that for my 3d sphere which wouldn't be right.

However, now I am not sure if taking r to be const. on my 2d sphere is the way to go... (sorry for any typos in latex, am on phone)
 
  • #6
I think I've convinced myself that r=const for sure, and that my calculations are correct. When we look at our ## \Omega_{ij} = d\omega_{ij} + \omega_{ik} \wedge \omega_{kj} ## from our 3sphere and 2sphere, i noticed that on the 3sphere that ## \Omega_{\theta \phi} = -2sin\theta d\theta \wedge d \phi## and that ##\Omega_{\phi \theta} = 2 sin\theta d \theta \wedge d \phi ## and on the 2 sphere, theyre the same just without the factor of 2! Thus, it makes sense that the curvature would basically be the same since the underlying geometry would be the same.
 

FAQ: Derivative of unit vector in spherical coords.

1. What does the derivative of a unit vector in spherical coordinates represent?

The derivative of a unit vector in spherical coordinates represents the rate of change of the direction of the vector with respect to changes in the coordinate variables.

2. How is the derivative of a unit vector calculated in spherical coordinates?

The derivative of a unit vector in spherical coordinates can be calculated by taking the partial derivative of the vector components with respect to each of the spherical coordinates.

3. What is the significance of the derivative of a unit vector in spherical coordinates in physics?

The derivative of a unit vector in spherical coordinates is important in physics because it is used to calculate the angular velocity and acceleration of an object moving in three-dimensional space.

4. Can the derivative of a unit vector in spherical coordinates change over time?

Yes, the derivative of a unit vector in spherical coordinates can change over time if the coordinates or the vector itself are changing. This change represents the change in the direction of the vector as it moves in three-dimensional space.

5. How does the derivative of a unit vector in spherical coordinates differ from that in Cartesian coordinates?

The main difference is in the coordinate system used to calculate the derivative. In spherical coordinates, the derivative takes into account changes in the radial, azimuthal, and polar angles, while in Cartesian coordinates, it only considers changes in the x, y, and z directions.

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