Derivative using the limit definition (without using L'Hospital's rule)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the derivative of a function at a specific point using the limit definition, explicitly avoiding L'Hospital's rule. Participants explore various methods and reasoning related to the limit process involved in differentiation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to proceed with the limit definition of the derivative after stating the problem.
  • Another participant corrects the first by noting that the denominator should be \(x - x_0\) and suggests using a series expansion for the arctangent function instead of L'Hospital's rule.
  • A third participant provides a detailed limit calculation, concluding that the limit does not exist due to differing limits from the left and right sides, which implies that the derivative does not exist at that point.
  • One participant acknowledges the challenge of avoiding L'Hospital's rule and expresses gratitude for the clarification provided by another participant.
  • Another participant asserts that the limit of the arctangent function as it approaches \(\pi/2\) does exist, which introduces a potential contradiction regarding the existence of the derivative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of the derivative. There are competing views regarding the limits involved and the implications for the derivative's existence.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the behavior of the function near the point of interest, and the discussion reflects differing interpretations of the limits involved in the derivative calculation.

goody1
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Hello everybody, could you help me with this problem please? I have to find a derivative in x0 of this function (without using L'Hospital's rule):
View attachment 9694

I used the definition View attachment 9695, but I don't know what to do next. Thank you.
 

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goody said:
Hello everybody, could you help me with this problem please? I have to find a derivative in x0 of this function (without using L'Hospital's rule):I used the definition , but I don't know what to do next. Thank you.

First of all, the denominator is x - x_0, not x - 0.

If you can't use L'Hospital's Rule (which, by the way, is a pointless constraint designed to make life more difficult for the person doing the work), then I'd advise using a series for the arctangent function.
 
Note that $f(x_0)=f(0)$ has been defined as $0$.

So we have:
$$f'(x_0)=\lim_{x\to x_0}\frac{\pi x^2+x\arctan\frac{3\pi}x-f(x_0)}{x-x_0}
=\lim_{x\to 0}\frac{\pi x^2+x\arctan\frac{3\pi}x-f(0)}{x-0}
=\lim_{x\to 0}\Big(\pi x+\arctan\frac{3\pi}x\Big)
$$
Furthermore:
$$\lim_{x\to 0^+}\arctan\frac{3\pi}x = \frac\pi 2$$
$$\lim_{x\to 0^-}\arctan\frac{3\pi}x = -\frac\pi 2$$
So $\lim\limits_{x\to 0}\arctan\frac{3\pi}x$ does not exist, and therefore $f'(x_0)$ does not exist either.
 
I know using L'Hospital's rule would be easy way to solve it but we haven't learned it yet so we're forced to find another ways.

Anyways, thank you so much Klaas van Aarsen, now when you showed me it looks so simple.
 
[math]\lim_{\theta \to \pi/2} \tan(\theta)= \infty[/math] so [math]\lim_{x \to\infty} \arctan(x)=\pi/2[/math]. That limit certainly does exist!
 

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