Derivative When Substituting Variables

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differentiation of a function involving a substitution of variables, specifically when substituting ##v=\frac{y}{x}## and rearranging to express ##y## in terms of ##v## and ##x##. Participants explore the application of the product rule in this context and clarify the relationships between the variables involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the derivative of ##y## when substituting ##v=\frac{y}{x}##, questioning how ##v## can be treated as a function of both ##y## and ##x## while ##y## is a function of ##x##.
  • Another participant agrees with the derivative expression ##\frac{dy}{dx}=v+x\frac{dv}{dx}##, citing the product rule as the basis for this result.
  • A later reply clarifies that while ##v## is indeed a function of both ##x## and ##y##, the assumption is that ##y## is a function of ##x##, leading to the conclusion that ##v## can be treated as a function of ##x## alone for differentiation purposes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of the product rule and the resulting derivative expression, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the treatment of ##v## as a function of both variables.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made about the relationships between the variables and how they affect the differentiation process.

Drakkith
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I'm working through a proof in my differential equations book, but I think I'm hung up on a basic calculus derivative.

If we have a function ##f(x,y)## and we substitute ##v=\frac{y}{x}## , rearrange to get ##y=vx##, and then take the derivative, supposedly by the product rule we get $$\frac{dy}{dx}=v+x\frac{dv}{dx}$$
I'm not quite sure how this works since ##v## is a function of both y and x and y itself is a function of x. What's going on here?
 
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I think it should be dy/dx=v+x*dv/dx as per the product rule.
 
cnh1995 said:
I think it should be dy/dx=v+x*dv/dx as per the product rule.
I'm sorry, I forgot to add the X in the 2nd term. My mistake.
I'm still not sure what's going on though. :biggrin:
 
Drakkith said:
I'm working through a proof in my differential equations book, but I think I'm hung up on a basic calculus derivative.

If we have a function ##f(x,y)## and we substitute ##v=\frac{y}{x}## , rearrange to get ##y=vx##, and then take the derivative, supposedly by the product rule we get $$\frac{dy}{dx}=v+x\frac{dv}{dx}$$
I'm not quite sure how this works since ##v## is a function of both y and x and y itself is a function of x. What's going on here?
##v = \frac y x##, so in a sense v is a function of both x and y, but the assumption is that y is a function of x. This means that v is also a function of x alone.

Starting with the equation y = vx, differentiate both sides with respect to x. This gives you y' = v + v'x, just using the product rule.
 
Okay. I figured it was something easy I was missing. Thanks guys.
 

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