Derivative with respect to which variable?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the length of the fourth side of a trapezoid when its area is maximized. Participants explore the challenges of determining which variable to differentiate with respect to, given the presence of multiple variables in the area equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests expressing the area as a function of the sides of the trapezoid to find a relationship between the fourth side and side $$a$$.
  • Another participant proposes a method to express the area in terms of height $$h$$ and a variable $$x$$, along with a constraint involving $$x$$ and $$h$$.
  • A later reply questions how to determine which variable to optimize with respect to when multiple variables are present.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of using the leftmost angle $$\theta$$ to express the area, suggesting it simplifies differentiation.
  • One participant emphasizes that since $$a$$ is a constant, the area can be expressed as a function of either $$x$$ or $$h$$, or alternatively, a multi-variable method like Lagrange multipliers can be used.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to approach the problem of determining the variable for differentiation, indicating that there is no consensus on the best method to optimize the area.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the problem due to multiple variables and constraints, and the discussion reflects various approaches without resolving which is superior.

SweatingBear
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We have the following trapezoid:

View attachment 1201

The question is to find the length of the fourth side when the area of trapezoid is maximized.

I realize we will not be able to find a numerical value for the fourth side due to the given information (rather, lack thereof). So we are essentially going have to find, through calculus, an algebraic relationship between the fourth side and the given side, $$a$$.

First and foremost, we need to write an equation for the area. The problem however is that we will not be able to express the function in simply one variable. This is where I am stuck: Since the function will depend on several variables, how can we tell which variable we ought to be taking the derivative with respect to? This is normally, from what I have experienced, the most difficult task i.e. to realize which variable one should take the derivative of.

Here's a spontaneous thought: Since we are looking for the relationship between the fourth side and the side $$a$$, it would be wise to express the function in terms of the mentioned sides. Thus, when we take the derivative and equate it to zero, we ought to be able to find some kind of relationship between the aforementioned sides.

What do you think forum? Share your insights!
 

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I would attack the problem by drawing the following diagram first:

View attachment 1203

The area may then be written:

$$A(h,x)=\frac{h}{2}((a+2x)+a)=h(a+x)$$

subject to the constraint:

$$x^2+h^2=a^2$$

You may then express the area as a function of one variable, or use Lagrange multipliers.
 

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MarkFL said:
I would attack the problem by drawing the following diagram first:

View attachment 1203

The area may then be written:

$$A(h,x)=\frac{h}{2}((a+2x)+a)=h(a+x)$$

subject to the constraint:

$$x^2+h^2=a^2$$

You may then express the area as a function of one variable, or use Lagrange multipliers.

Yes that's great but I am afraid it does not answer the main question: In the case where we have several variables, how can one tell which variable one should optimize with respect to?
 
sweatingbear said:
Yes that's great but I am afraid it does not answer the main question: In the case where we have several variables, how can one tell which variable one should optimize with respect to?

Instead of considering MarkFL's $$x$$ you might consider the leftmost angle. If we call this $$\theta$$ then we get $$A(\theta)=a^2(\cos\theta \sin\theta +\sin\theta)$$.

This is quite easy to differentiate and the resulting equation is easy to solve.

Just another possibility.
 
sweatingbear said:
Yes that's great but I am afraid it does not answer the main question: In the case where we have several variables, how can one tell which variable one should optimize with respect to?

$a$ is a given constant, as it remains fixed. Therefore, you have the choice of using the constraint to get the area as a function of one variable (either $x$ or $h$), or using a multi-variable method, such as Lagrange multipliers (which is much easier in this case).
 
Thanks!
 

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