Derivatives of Exponential Cosine Function

  • Thread starter Thread starter mitch_1211
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Derivative Stuck
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion centers around finding the first and second derivatives of the function θ(t) = A exp(−λt) cos(ωt). The derivatives are intended for substitution into a related equation involving I(θ), μθ, and γθ, with the goal of proving a specific relationship involving λ.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the function using Wolfram Alpha but encounters difficulties. Some participants suggest using a substitution method to simplify the differentiation process, while others express concerns about the complexity of the derivatives.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively discussing the problem, with some offering suggestions for tackling the derivatives. There is a recognition of the challenges involved, and one participant notes that they have resolved the problem through a specific approach, although the details are not fully explained.

Contextual Notes

There is a question regarding the definitions of μθ and γθ, indicating that some assumptions or definitions may need clarification. The original poster mentions this being their first lab for second-year university physics, suggesting a learning context with potential constraints on their experience.

mitch_1211
Messages
95
Reaction score
1

Homework Statement



i need to find the first and second of derivative of this
θ(t) = A exp−λt cos(ωt) with (-lambda*t) being the power of exp

in order to substitute into here
I(theta) = −μθ(1st deriv of theta) + γθ(2nd deriv of theta)

and then prove that
λ = −γ/2I

Homework Equations


θ(t) = A exp−λt cos(ωt)


The Attempt at a Solution



have tried deriving with wolfram alpha myself and have gotten very stuck:

1st deriv : http://www3.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP625719eec443gegicdc800005bha4ii759c7g9d9?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=42&w=342&h=36

2nd deriv: http://www4d.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP809419eebe57538ah30200004hbcc464i71a2h1h?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=11&w=270&h=61

with l representing lambda.

any help would be much appreciated!

Regards,
Mitch
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
This looks like a book keeping nightmare. The first derivative is pretty straight forward. I would start by letting U=-lambda*t*Cos(w*t) determine dU/dt. d(theta)/dt=d(theta)/dU*dU/dt. Make the same U substitution for the second derivative. It looks like it will get messy.
 
RTW69 said:
This looks like a book keeping nightmare. The first derivative is pretty straight forward. I would start by letting U=-lambda*t*Cos(w*t) determine dU/dt. d(theta)/dt=d(theta)/dU*dU/dt. Make the same U substitution for the second derivative. It looks like it will get messy.

very very messy...
this is my first lab for 2nd year uni physics. oh what joy lays ahead :P no it should be fine, this is one of the harder labs.

thanks for you advice!

mitch
 
What do μθ and γθ represent ?
 
SammyS said:
What do μθ and γθ represent ?

thanks for trying to help Sammy, I have since solved the problem. By letting each sin and cos equal zero, they can be eliminated and the equation will still hold. It's hard to explain here, but it worked out well.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
8K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K