Derivatives of Exponentials (why e?)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the mathematical properties of the constant e, particularly why it is defined such that the limit as h approaches 0 of (e^h - 1)/h equals 1, and how this relates to other exponential functions like a^h. Participants explore the implications of this definition and the behavior of different exponential functions as h approaches zero.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why only e has the property that d/dx(e^x) = e^x, while other exponential functions like a^h also approach 1 as h approaches 0.
  • There is a suggestion that while (a^h - 1) approaches 0 as h approaches 0, the rate at which this occurs may differ depending on the base a.
  • One participant proposes that the limit of (a^h - 1)/h may not equal 1 for bases other than e, and they inquire about the significance of the rate of convergence.
  • Another participant provides numerical examples comparing the rates of convergence for different bases, illustrating that they converge to different values when divided by h.
  • There is a discussion about whether two functions approaching zero at the same rate would have the same limit when divided by h, raising further questions about the nature of limits and rates of change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of exponential functions as h approaches zero, particularly regarding the rates of convergence and the uniqueness of e. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on definitions and the nuances of limits and derivatives, particularly in relation to different bases of exponential functions. Participants reference the need for further exploration of these concepts through numerical examples and graphical representations.

V0ODO0CH1LD
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Why is it that the constant e is defined as being the unique case where the limit as h goes to 0 of (e^h - 1)/h = 1? I mean every exponential function like a^x equals 1 when x equals 0, right? So would it be fair to say that (a^h) approaches 1 as h approaches zero? And that (a^h - 1) approaches zero as h approaches zero? And finally that the limit as h goes to 0 of (a^h - 1)/h also equals one?

I am confused as to why is it that only e is such that d/dx(e^x)=e^x
 
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V0ODO0CH1LD said:
Why is it that the constant e is defined as being the unique case where the limit as h goes to 0 of (e^h - 1)/h = 1?

We can give you mathematical proofs, but it seems like in your case, you should see what's going on. Get out a calculator and calculate the left hand side by taking smaller and smaller h. Then repeat with something not e. It's one thing to know the theory, its another to see the raw data infront of you.

I mean every exponential function like a^x equals 1 when x equals 0, right?

a=0

So would it be fair to say that (a^h) approaches 1 as h approaches zero? And that (a^h - 1) approaches zero as h approaches zero? And finally that the limit as h goes to 0 of (a^h - 1)/h also equals one?

But do they approach at the same rate?
 
V0ODO0CH1LD said:
I mean every exponential function like a^x equals 1 when x equals 0, right?

pwsnafu said:
a=0

ax, when x=0 is taken to be 1, even for a=0. Read under exponentiation : https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=530207 .


To the OP, try taking y = ax as a general function and find its derivative, by taking logarithm on both sides. See where this leads...Also, as pwsnafu said, raw data will help you get an initial 'feel' of it.
 
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Do you mean to say that (e^h - 1) approaches zero at the same rate as h does, but (a^h - 1) doesn't ? Why that happens exclusively to e?
Also, is rate the only thing that matters? So if I had two things approaching zero at the same rate, but one of them would reach zero earlier because it starts lower, would the ratio of those two things still be equal to one?
And if that is not the case, does that mean that (e^h - 1) = h as h approaches zero?
 
Yes, it is true that [itex]a^h- 1[/itex] approaches 0, as h goes to 0, for different a at different rates. It should be no surprise to you that different functions can converge to the same number at different rates- that's the whole point of the "slope" or derivative. To verify that, for example, look at graphs of [itex]y= a^x- 1[/itex] for different a. And it happens that the rate is "1" for a= e, essentially because e is defined to be that number.
For example, if we take h= .1, .01, .001, successively, [itex]2^h- 1[/itex] becomes
0.07177, 0.00695, and .00069. Each of those, divided by h, is 0.7177, 0.695, and 0.690, respectively. Each of those is less than 1 and it can be shown that they converge to a number less than 1.

But [itex]3^h- 1[/itex] becomes 0.11612, 0.01104, and 0.00109. Again dividing by h they give 1.1612, 1.104, and 1.09. Each of those is larger than 1 and converges to a number larger than 1.

We could do the same with, say, [itex](2.7^h- 1)/h[/itex] and [itex](2.75^h- 1)/h[/itex] showing that the first converges to a number slightly less than 1, the second to a number just larger than 1. There exist a between 2 and 3, between 2.7 and 2.75, such that [itex](a^h- 1)/h[/itex] converges to 1. We call that value, "e".
 

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