Derive Lorentz transformations in perturbation theory

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the Lorentz transformations using perturbation theory, specifically focusing on the second-order approximations. Participants are exploring the mathematical framework and assumptions underlying this derivation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the expansion of terms using Taylor series and the implications of assuming that v/c is much less than 1. There are attempts to clarify the relationship between first-order and second-order terms in the context of the transformations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants questioning their understanding of the problem statement and the correct approach to deriving the transformations. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of Taylor series, but there is no explicit consensus on the method being followed.

Contextual Notes

There are indications that some participants may have misunderstood the problem requirements, leading to confusion about the derivation process and the need to check agreement with the full transformation.

Hill
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Homework Statement
See the image below.
Relevant Equations
Lorentz transformations
1708744095448.png

I've arrived to an expected answer, but I am not sure at all that the process was what the problem statement wants.
First, I considered ##0=(t+\delta t)^2-(x+vt)^2-(t^2-x^2) \approx 2t \delta t - 2xvt - v^2t^2##. Ignoring ##O(v^2)## gives ##\delta t=vx##, i.e., ##t \rightarrow t+vx##.
Keeping ##O(v^2)## gives ##t \rightarrow t+vx+\frac 1 2 v^2t##, which is the correct expansion of the full transformation to the second order.
Now, taking ##x \rightarrow x+ \delta x, t \rightarrow t+vx## gives by the similar calculation, ##x \rightarrow x+vt+\frac 1 2 v^2x##.

Is it what the exercise means?
 
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What you do is expand both terms in the dementor as a Taylor series. Why this can be done is that it needs to be assumed that v/c << 1 so that the rest of the terms in the Taylor series will die out as (v/c)^n when n>1. For the units you are working with, v<<c. The application makes more sense when working with units that don't have v as a percentage of the speed of light. I'll let you do the same one for a time.

Then plug in your x' and t' terms as dx' and dt' into your wolrd line to prove that 1+1 space-time inference still holds, even when the approximation worked out is applied.

Then do the same for second-order approximation

1708813904665.png
 
Last edited:
Costco Physicist said:
What you do is expand both terms in the dementor as a Taylor series
Yes, that is how I knew that the ##\frac 1 2 v^2## terms are correct.
 
Hill said:
Yes, that is how I knew that the ##\frac 1 2 v^2## terms are correct.
I added more.
 
Costco Physicist said:
I added more.
I see.
But you start with the full transformation, while the exercise wants to derive the approximation of the correct transformation using perturbation theory, and only to check the agreement with the full transformation to the second order.
 
Hill said:
I see.
But you start with the full transformation, while the exercise wants to derive the approximation of the correct transformation using perturbation theory, and only to check the agreement with the full transformation to the second order.
Oh ****. Your right. I'm working on it. I didn't read the whole problem
 
Costco Physicist said:
Oh ****. Your right. I'm working on it. I didn't read the whole problem
Try plugging in t+dt into vt' for t+dt=t'
 
Costco Physicist said:
Try plugging in t+dt into vt' for t+dt=t'
Isn't it what I've done in the OP?
 
Hill said:
Isn't it what I've done in the OP?
Looks like you did.
Hill said:
Isn't it what I've done in the OP?
Looks like you did it. You can get your new second-order terms because have your new terms from your first-order approximation,
 
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  • #10
Costco Physicist said:
[...] expand both terms in the dementor as a Taylor series
:oldlaugh:
 
  • #11
strangerep said:
:oldlaugh:
?
 

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