Deriving the lever law using infinitesimals

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the lever law using infinitesimals, focusing on the effects of gravitational force on objects positioned at different distances from a fulcrum. Participants explore the relationships between angular velocity, distance from the fulcrum, and the moments created by the objects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to prove that two objects at a distance can replace two others at different distances while maintaining the same angular behavior, leading to a mathematical expression involving angular velocities.
  • Another participant challenges the assumption that all objects experience the same change in velocity, noting that distance from the fulcrum affects their angular acceleration.
  • Questions arise about the interpretation of moments and how they relate to the velocities of the blocks involved.
  • Participants discuss the implications of angular velocity being different at various points along the lever and how this affects the overall behavior of the system.
  • There is a mention of the elastic forces in the lever that contribute to maintaining constant angular velocity along its length, which some participants feel is not adequately considered in the initial analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions regarding velocity changes and moments. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the relationships between the forces, velocities, and moments involved in the lever system.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the need to consider additional factors such as elastic forces in the lever, which may not have been included in the initial reasoning. The discussion reflects various interpretations of the lever law and the effects of gravitational force on angular motion.

Aleoa
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I'm trying to derive the lever law by myself, however, I'm stuck. Please follow the logic of my calculations.

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Every object in the picture has the same mass. I want to prove that, under the effect of the gravitational force, I can replace the objects in A and C with the two objects in B, and obtain a system that behaves in the same way.

Since the same gravitational force acts in the objects, in an infinitesimal time interval dt they all get the same dv. However, the correspondent infinitesimal change in angular velocity also depends on the distance between the object(s) and the fulcrum.
If i prove that in an dt the d\omega due to the objects in A and C is equal to the d\omega due to the two objects on B, I'm done.

d\omega_{A}+d\omega_{C}=d\omega_{B}

that is

\frac{dv}{OA}+\frac{dv}{OA+D}=\frac{2dv}{OA+\frac{D}{2}}
where O is the fulcrum and D is the distance between C and A.

However, doing some calculations i found that...

\frac{dv}{OA}+\frac{dv}{OA+D}\neq\frac{2dv}{OA+\frac{D}{2}}

Maybe two single masses in A and C have not the same effect as a double mass in B, however according to Spivak:

243255
 
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Aleoa said:
in an infinitesimal time interval ##\mathrm{d}t## they all get the same ##\mathrm{d}v##
No they don't: if they stay on the shelf, the ones that are further from the fulcrum go faster.
There is a difference between static balance of moments and angular acceleration due to imbalance.
 
Then why the author says that the 6 blocks highlighted in grey have the same effect as a single block in A? Can you explain to me more deeply?
 
Aleoa said:
Then why the author says that the 6 blocks highlighted in grey have the same effect as a single block in A?
Because he's not talking about their velocities. He's talking about their moments about the fulcrum.
 
Let's get back to my first question. If i can replace the objects in A and C with the two objects in B, in a dt what is the infinitesimal quantity that they change in the same way?
 
Assume the arm is rotating around the fulcrum without slipping. What is changing equally along the whole length of the arm?
 
Let's only consider the points A and C. Since the gravitational force is the same in both points, in a dt they get the same dv and so a different d\omega =Rdv. Is this correct ?
 
No. If points on the rod have different ##\omega##, what happens to the rod?
 
If the answer to that isn't obvious, start with the rod horizontal and assign angular velocity 5°/s to a point 1cm away from the fulcrum, 10°/s to a point 2cm away, etc, and draw those points at ##t=1s##.
 
  • #10
You are right. My misunderstanding started because i can't properly understand what is the same dv that A and C get according to the force law \bar{F}=m\frac{d\bar{v}}{dt} that applies equally in both points
 
  • #11
The lever resists bending. It produces an elastic force that acts such that the angular velocity is constant along the length. You are only factoring in gravity and leaving this out.
 

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