Determining Spring Constant in Ion Pair

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves determining the equilibrium position and effective spring constant for an ion pair, specifically Na+ in NaCl, using a force equation that incorporates parameters such as m and α. The original poster attempts to find the frequency of vibration based on these parameters.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the use of the binomial expansion theorem and its application to the force equation. Questions arise about the dependence on r and r₀, and how to handle small deviations from equilibrium. There is also exploration of derivatives of force to understand its behavior near the equilibrium position.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, providing insights into the mathematical approaches and questioning assumptions. Some have reached intermediate results regarding the spring constant and frequency, while others express uncertainty about the validity of their findings. There is no explicit consensus, but productive dialogue is ongoing.

Contextual Notes

There are constraints regarding the values of r₀ and the parameters m and α, which are critical for the calculations. The discussion reflects a mix of established values and assumptions that may affect the outcomes.

PEZenfuego
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Homework Statement



The force between an ion pair is given by F=-k\alpha\frac{e^{2}}{r^{2}}[1-\left(\frac{r_{\circ}}{r}\right)^{m-1}]
Find the value of r where the equilibrium position is.

Determine the effective spring constant for small oscillations from the equilibrium.

Using m=8~\text{and}~\alpha=1.7476 estimate the frequency of vibration of a Na+ ion in NaCl

Homework Equations



Binomial expansion theorem

The Attempt at a Solution



The first question is easy as you set the force equal to 0 and it is no surprise that the answer is r=r_{\circ}. When I try using the binomial expansion theorem, I always end up with a dependence on r_{\circ}. But in the next portion, I have to find the frequency of vibration for Na+ ion and am only given alpha and m. Thanks for any help.
 
Last edited:
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Where do you get a binomial expansions? Please show your work, otherwise it is hard to find out what went wrong.
 
Maybe use that \left(1-x\right)^n\approx 1-nx where x is much less than 1.
 
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2.718281828459 said:
Maybe use that \left(1-x\right)^n\approx 1-nx where x is much less than 1.
I did this! So I converted r to r_{\circ}+\Delta r and get F=-k\alpha \frac{e^{2}}{r_{\circ}+\Delta r}[1-\left(1-\frac{\Delta r}{r_{\circ}}\right)^{1-m}] and say that \frac{\Delta r}{r_{\circ}} is much less than 1 (which is reasonable for small angles). I was hoping that this would get rid of the r and r_{\circ} dependence this way, but even if I do, what do I do about F?
 
A right, with ##r \approx r_0## you get that binomial expansion, okay.

but even if I do, what do I do about F?
How does F vary for very small Δr? In particular, what about its derivatives?
 
Finding the derivative of force will show the points at which it is minimized and maximized, but I all ready know that. What good is it?
 
It will also show you how the force varies for small deviations from the equilibrium point. This gives the effective spring constant.
 
mfb said:
It will also show you how the force varies for small deviations from the equilibrium point. This gives the effective spring constant.

Well, I end up with the spring constant being \frac{k\alpha e^{2} \left(m-1\right)}{r_{0}^{3}} and plugging this into mathematica shows the tangent, which is in good agreement for small deviations. Great...so now what?
 
So I took r0 to be the ion separation between na and cl which was 0.28 nm. Using this and all of the other information, I ended up with a frequency of 1.19*10^13 hertz. Is this reasonable?
 
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  • #10
PEZenfuego said:
Well, I end up with the spring constant being \frac{k\alpha e^{2} \left(m-1\right)}{r_{0}^{3}}
I agree with that result.

Looks like you have to use the external value for r0.
I don't know about the frequency, but it does not look completely wrong.
 
  • #11
For the units to work out I HAVE to know r0. Maybe my value is crap, but at least my solution shows the understanding is there. It turned out to not be too hard...maybe a little convoluted. Thanks for the help!
 

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