Harmonic oscillator with 3 charged particles

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a system of three charged particles: an alpha particle, an electron, and a fluor ion. The original poster seeks to determine the spring constant related to the harmonic oscillation of the fluor ion around its equilibrium position, which is influenced by the electric forces between the charges.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to find the equilibrium position by setting the net force to zero but struggles to express the force in a linear form suitable for harmonic motion. Participants discuss the need to consider small deviations from equilibrium and the application of Taylor approximation to linearize the force equation.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in clarifying the approach to linearizing the force equation and discussing the proper substitutions for the equilibrium position. Some guidance has been provided regarding the differentiation process and the correct interpretation of variables, but no consensus on a final method has been reached.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes considerations about the definitions of variables and the importance of maintaining correct units throughout the analysis. There is an acknowledgment of the need for careful mathematical treatment of the forces involved.

Jean-C
Messages
4
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


I got an alpha particle (charge 2+) fixed at x=0 and an electron fixed at x=2. I then add a fluor ion (charge 1-) to the right of the electron and we note his position xeq. The question is to find the constant spring (k) relative to the harmonic oscillation made by the fluor atom for small movements around its equilibrium.

Homework Equations


The electric force between two charges :
F=kecqQ/r2
where r is the distance between the two charges.
Note : I used kec so It is clear it is different from the spring constant k.

The force in an harmonic oscillator :
F=-kx
where k is the constant I'm looking for.

The Attempt at a Solution

[/B]
It is easy to see that the motion is that of an harmonic oscillator but I can't demonstrate it mathematically. I start off by finding the equilibrium position by finding where the resulting force is 0 :
F=kec(2*-1)/(xeq-0)2 + kec(-1*-1)/(xeq-2)2
With that I found out the the equilibrium position was at 2(2+sqrt(2)).
But then I have no idea how to find the relative constant k since the equation isn't linear in x like F=-kx but rather like F=k/x2.

My first idea is to transform the equation to a linear one and then isolate k, but I can't seem to find how. If anyone can give me a cue as to how to do that or to find k I'd be very grateful!
Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hello again, Jean-C, :welcome:

Much better !
Jean-C said:
isn't linear in x like F=-kx but rather like F=k/x2.
Not exactly: in these equations x means the deviation from equilibrium, so (your ## x)-x_{\rm eq}\ ##. You want to find the first order coefficient in that F. Effectively you approximate F(x) as a straight line at ##x_{\rm eq} ## to find ##k_{\rm\; 'spring'} ##
 
Thanks for the fast answer I really appreciate it! And sorry for the last post, I was very tired...
I understand that I need to observe small deviations from equilibrium, but I must be doing something wrong : do I replace xeq by x-xeq and then use the Taylor approximation for the first order (since F(0) is 0 at equilibrium)?
 
Yes. It's called differentiation, I think :smile:. Mind you, your ##x## is already defined. The game is now to rewrite F(x) in terms of ##x'= x - x_{\rm eq}##. So you don't want to replace ##x_{\rm eq}## .
 
Alright, thanks to you I have figured it out! Thanks a lot!
 
You're welcome. Nice exercise.
warning: make sure you have the units right.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K