Determining The Inclination Angle of A Stellar Binary System

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the challenges of determining the inclination angle of the orbital plane in stellar binary systems. Participants explore the limitations of current observational technology and methods, as well as theoretical considerations regarding the feasibility of measuring this angle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the inclination angle is considered impossible to determine, citing their professor's comments on technological limitations and the sensitivity of instruments.
  • Another participant discusses the capabilities of the Very Large Telescope's spectrometers, noting that while high-resolution measurements of radial velocity are possible, resolving small changes in angle remains a challenge.
  • There is mention of a hypothetical close binary star system and calculations suggesting that the changes in radial velocity due to small angular shifts are too minute to detect with current technology.
  • A later reply suggests that if technological limitations are ignored, one could theoretically send a probe to measure the inclination angle directly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that current technological limitations hinder the determination of the inclination angle, but there is no consensus on whether this makes it "impossible" in an absolute sense. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the feasibility of alternative methods or future advancements.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the sensitivity of observational instruments and unresolved questions about the existence of closer binary systems that might be easier to study.

Phys12
Messages
351
Reaction score
42
I am a Physics undergraduate at the University of Texas at Arlington. I am currently taking an Astrophysics class in which my professor talked about the inclination angle of the orbital plane of the binary star system and how it is impossible to determine that angle. I was wondering why is it the case? What exactly makes it impossible to find out the inclination angle of a stellar binary system? I asked my professor and he said that he doesn't think my method would work because our instruments are not sensitive enough and recommended that I contact other people/professors and see what they say since this is not his area of research.

I tried playing around with some equations hoping to come up with a way of figuring out the inclination angle to get the true velocity of the star. I have attached what I have been able to come up with so far, however, I am not sure how feasible this would be.
 

Attachments

  • Inclination angle.png
    Inclination angle.png
    3.1 KB · Views: 1,048
  • Inclination Angle of Spectroscopic Binaries.pdf
    Inclination Angle of Spectroscopic Binaries.pdf
    94.2 KB · Views: 597
Astronomy news on Phys.org
One of the most sensitive spectrometers in the world, the one installed in
the Very Large Telescope in the European Space Observatory has a resolution
of 105
That is the ability to resolve different spectral lines, to determine the radial velocity you "only" have to find the center, that can be done with a much higher accuracy. 1 m/s radial velocity measurements are possible with bright stars, a bit better is possible under ideal conditions with a lot of observation time (e. g. Alpha Centauri Bb - 0.5 m/s).

Let's consider a very close binary star with 200 km/s radial velocity and give it a distance of 10 parsec to make optical resolution difficult. The angle changes by 1/10 of an arcsecond, that changes the radial velocity by something like 500 km/s * sin(1/10 arcsecond) = 0.1 m/s. Maybe a factor 2 more if the alignment of the systems is ideal. Still too small to resolve it with current telescopes. HIRES at the ELT might be able to do it. It is focused on detecting planets however, not tiny changes in rapidly orbiting binary stars.
Closer binaries in even closer orbits would help as well, but I'm not sure if they exist. Overall the best future observatories could maybe get a very rough idea of the orientation of a few systems with ideal conditions if you spend a lot of observation time on it. I'm not sure how useful that is.
 
mfb said:
That is the ability to resolve different spectral lines, to determine the radial velocity you "only" have to find the center, that can be done with a much higher accuracy. 1 m/s radial velocity measurements are possible with bright stars, a bit better is possible under ideal conditions with a lot of observation time (e. g. Alpha Centauri Bb - 0.5 m/s).

Let's consider a very close binary star with 200 km/s radial velocity and give it a distance of 10 parsec to make optical resolution difficult. The angle changes by 1/10 of an arcsecond, that changes the radial velocity by something like 500 km/s * sin(1/10 arcsecond) = 0.1 m/s. Maybe a factor 2 more if the alignment of the systems is ideal. Still too small to resolve it with current telescopes. HIRES at the ELT might be able to do it. It is focused on detecting planets however, not tiny changes in rapidly orbiting binary stars.
Closer binaries in even closer orbits would help as well, but I'm not sure if they exist. Overall the best future observatories could maybe get a very rough idea of the orientation of a few systems with ideal conditions if you spend a lot of observation time on it. I'm not sure how useful that is.
So, if it's the case that the only limitation in figuring out the inclination angle is the sensitivity of our detectors, then why is it said that it's impossible to figure out the inclination angle? My method seems easy enough that someone would've thought of it before me. When they say impossible, do they mean impossible in terms of our technological limitations?
 
Phys12 said:
When they say impossible, do they mean impossible in terms of our technological limitations?
Yes.
If you ignore technological limitations you can send a probe there.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
6K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
3K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
10K