Diagonalizability of Singular Matrices: Investigating Rank and Eigenvectors

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the diagonalizability of a 3x3 singular matrix A, given certain conditions related to its rank and the matrix A + 5I. Participants explore the implications of A being singular and the relationship between the ranks of A and A + 5I, as well as the eigenvalues and eigenvectors associated with these matrices.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the meaning of singularity and its implications for the ranks of A and A + 5I. Questions arise about the relationship between eigenvalues, eigenvectors, and diagonalizability. Some participants attempt to clarify the conditions under which a matrix can be diagonalizable and the significance of geometric versus algebraic multiplicities of eigenvalues.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and questioning assumptions about the properties of the matrices involved. Some guidance has been offered regarding the relationship between eigenvalues and diagonalizability, but no consensus has been reached on the final determination of A's diagonalizability.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that A is singular, which implies its rank is less than 3. There is also mention of the Jordan normal form and the conditions under which a matrix can be diagonalized, highlighting the complexity of the discussion regarding eigenvalues and their multiplicities.

  • #31
p(A+5I) = 1
 
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  • #32
fresh_42 said:
Almost. It only guarantees you that ##SAS^{-1}## is of this form, i.e. ##A## is diagonalizable. And recalculate ##p(A+5I)## in this case. (It is also sufficient to state the linear independency of ##v_1## and ##v_2##. No need for coordinates.)
I got confused a bit now.
We took a diagonalized matrix and we proved that it can be diagonalized ? still I am not sure if there is a matrix that is not diagonalized that stratify this.
 
  • #33
What is the criterion you use by saying ##A## is diagonalizable?
 
  • #34
fresh_42 said:
What is the criterion you use by saying ##A## is diagonalizable?

If it has 3 linearly independent eigenvectors,
or if it has distinct eigenvalues
or if geometric multiplicity is equal to the algebraic multiplicity.
 
  • #35
So, the second isn't applicable. How many eigenvectors of ##A## arise from the dimension of the nullspace of ##A+5I##?
And how many from the nullspace of ##A## itself? Are all of these linearly independent? And why?

The former considerations showed us which eigenvalues there have to be and which possibilities exist. They are not really necessary but were easy to do.
 
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  • #36
fresh_42 said:
So, the second isn't applicable. How many eigenvectors of ##A## arise from the dimension of the nullspace of ##A+5I##?
And how many from the nullspace of ##A## itself? Are all of these linearly independent? And why?

The former considerations showed us which eigenvalues there have to be and which possibilities exist. They are not really necessary but were easy to do.
I understand it if we assume A is the matrix that has it's eigenvalues on the diagonal. But what if A other matrix? in your question you assume A = diag(-5,-5,0) ?
 
  • #37
Dank2 said:
I understand it if we assume A is the matrix that has it's eigenvalues on the diagonal. But what if A other matrix? in your question you assume A = diag(-5,-5,0) ?
No, I only assume the equation ##3 = dim V = p(A+5I) + \dim \ker(A+5I) = 1 + 2##.
That gives me two linear independent vectors ##x,y## in the nullspace of ##A+5I##. Both have to be eigenvectors of ##A## as well, namely to the eigenvalue ##-5##.
Another vector ##z## spans the nullspace of ##A## by the same equation for ##A## instead.
It only remains to show that all three are linear independent.
So assume ##0 = ax+by+cz##. Why are all coefficients ##a,b,c## equal to zero?
 
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  • #38
fresh_42 said:
Both have to be eigenvectors of AAA as well
why ?
 
  • #39
Dank2 said:
why ?
Come on! ##(A+5I)x = 0 = Ax +5x ⇔ Ax = -5x##
Edit: You got to reset yourself. :wink:
 
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  • #40
fresh_42 said:
So assume 0=ax+by+cz0=ax+by+cz0 = ax+by+cz. Why are all coefficients a,b,ca,b,ca,b,c equal to zero?
Well you've just shown that the algebraic multiplicity is equal to the geometric multiplicity, so it's done. then A is diagonalizable, and the eigenvectors are linearly independent. therefore a=b=c=0
 
  • #41
fresh_42 said:
Come on! ##(A+5I)x = 0 = Ax +5x ⇔ Ax = -5x##
Edit: You got to reset yourself. :wink:
Just so i would know where i stand, how hard would you rate this question from 1-10
 
  • #42
fresh_42 said:
Edit: You got to reset yourself. :wink:
I'm just bad at math, with very poor backround
 
  • #43
Knowing the solution: easy. It actually contained two parts: ruling out other combinations of ranks and then investigate the various eigenvectors and -values.

However, as you could have seen by my comments I started to think way too complicated by myself.
This is a usual phenomena. As long as you don't know something, it appears hard, whereas it turns out to be easy if you know how to do it - often, but not always. Unfortunately there are theorems that will stay hard, even if one knows how to prove them. But this doesn't matter: you learned something about the Jordan normal form, the algebraic and geometric multiplicity and so on. So even longer ways to a solution can be no lost effort.
 
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