Did the LUX Dark Matter Experiment Fail to Detect Dark Matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of the LUX dark matter experiment's negative findings regarding the detection of dark matter. Participants explore various theoretical frameworks, alternative models, and the challenges of detecting an unknown particle type, focusing on the nature of dark matter and potential modifications to existing theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the LUX experiment achieved unprecedented sensitivity but failed to detect dark matter, raising questions about the nature of dark matter itself.
  • One participant suggests exploring the relationship between the Hubble constant and scalar fields, questioning if the acceleration of cosmic expansion fits this model.
  • Another participant proposes that theories like Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND) may need to be considered due to unexplained coincidences in the standard cosmological model.
  • Concerns are raised about how to test for dark matter particles when their nature is unknown, with analogies made about searching for 'red' particles when they might be 'blue'.
  • Some participants argue that the lack of detection does not rule out all dark matter candidates, as many potential particles remain untested.
  • There is speculation about the gravitational effects of dark matter and whether Earthbound experiments can accurately measure these effects given the expected homogeneity of dark matter density in the galaxy.
  • Participants discuss the limitations of the LUX experiment in ruling out certain dark matter candidates, emphasizing that many possibilities remain unexplored.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on the implications of the LUX findings. Some suggest modifications to existing theories, while others emphasize the need for further exploration of alternative candidates. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of dark matter and the effectiveness of current detection methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of the LUX experiment in detecting dark matter, noting that the experiment was specifically designed to search for Weakly Interacting Massive Particles (WIMPs) and may not account for other potential candidates. There is also uncertainty regarding the gravitational interactions of dark matter and how they can be measured in an Earthbound context.

  • #91
ohwilleke said:
If a particle interacts solely via gravity, ... "thermal dark matter" (i.e. models where all dark matter is created shortly after the big bang and then is stable after that)
This is not an accurate description of thermal dark matter. Dark matter is produced shortly after the Big Bang in any viable dark matter model and it does not have to be thermally produced. Axions are a prime example of this.

In addition, I strongly doubt a dark matter candidate with only gravitational interactions would be thermally produced anywhere below the reheating scale.
ohwilleke said:
On the up side, since we know the total amount of dark matter in the universe, and we can determine mean velocity and the number of dark matter particles in the universe simply by dividing by particle mass, that gives us a nice finite range of singlet dark matter models to investigate. And dark matter researchers have done just that.
Reference please. Dividing the density by the mass gives you the number density, not the velocity.
 
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  • #92
Orodruin said:
This is not an accurate description of thermal dark matter. Dark matter is produced shortly after the Big Bang in any viable dark matter model and it does not have to be thermally produced. Axions are a prime example of this. In addition, I strongly doubt a dark matter candidate with only gravitational interactions would be thermally produced anywhere below the reheating scale.

I have used the terms "thermal relic" and "relic" interchangeably, which is sloppy. A paper suggesting ways to distinguish between thermal and non-thermal DM with experimental constraints is here: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1311.5297.pdf

A rather comprehensive recent review of axion dark matter that explains and/or refers to papers that explain how axions could be non-relativistic despite being produced in the early universe can be found at http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/11/10/105008 although to be honest, it is not the most readable presentation. A more readable discussion is here: http://web.mit.edu/redingtn/www/netadv/specr/345/node3.html

I had thought, perhaps mistakenly, that axions could also be an example of dark matter that is not just produced shortly after the Big Bang, because it has to be constantly produces in day to day QCD interactions to keep the CP violation constant of the strong force theta, naturally or near zero, which would also allow it to have non-relativistic velocities (as any viable dark matter candidate must) despite having a mass less than that of hot dark matter neutrinos. But, I am too tired to run down a reference for that at the moment.

While I'm at it, a generalized and somewhat outdated case for the WIMP miracle involving thermal relic WIMPs can be found at http://web.mit.edu/redingtn/www/netadv/specr/345/node2.html

FWIW, I am highly unimpressed by the "natural" motivations for both the axions (on the theory that the zero or nearly zero CP violation of the strong force is unnatural) and for SUSY which would naturally solve the "hierarchy problem", both of which have at their foundations a scientists presumption about what physical constants Nature should have that really have no meaningful scientific basis and are mere guesswork, neither of which have born any fruit to date.

Reference please. Dividing the density by the mass gives you the number density, not the velocity.

Many papers do the analysis in a model dependent manner specific to WIMPs but a more general model-independent analysis can be found, for example, in the following 2014 paper. http://arxiv.org/pdf/1309.6971.pdf (Note that I am not citing this paper in support of the claim that everything in it is true, merely because it is an example of many that lays out the basic equations involved in the mass-velocity relationship relevant to dark matter, which it does preliminarily to reach its further conclusions.)

Another fairly general model-independent analysis that focuses on the free streaming length of DM which phenomenologically has the same sort of impacts that could be inferred from velocity is here: http://chalonge.obspm.fr/Dark_Matter.pdf

The relationship between free streaming length and velocity is spelled out here: http://www.thphys.uni-heidelberg.de/~smp/view/Delta09/Slides_rubakov.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #93
Auv = +- Guv = Tuv

Toy theory minor tweek on Einsteins GR gives both dark energy, dark matter like properties
 
Last edited:
  • #94
Timedial said:
Toy theory

Can you give a reference for this? Please bear in mind PF rules regarding personal theories.
 

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