Diferentiation and differential operators

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    Differential Operators
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of differentiation and differential operators, particularly focusing on the gradient, curl, and divergence in the context of fractional differentiation. Participants explore the relationships between these operations and their mathematical representations, as well as the implications of using fractional differentiation in various forms.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the gradient of a function f can be expressed as the differential of f with respect to a vector s, and questions the curl of f and the gradient in terms of fractional differentiation.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the term "fractional differentiation," suggesting that it may differ from established definitions and relates the operations to the exterior derivative.
  • A participant clarifies their notation regarding musical isomorphisms and the Hodge dual operator, indicating the metric dependence of these concepts.
  • There is a discussion about expressing derivatives in fractional form, with one participant suggesting that this aligns with the definition of fractional differentiation, while another argues that this interpretation conflicts with the established meaning of the term.
  • One participant provides a specific example of the divergence of a vector field, questioning whether it aligns with the concept of fractional differentiation.
  • Another participant points out that while the use of fractions is present, the scalar nature of the divergence expression does not fully align with their understanding of fractional differentiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of fractional differentiation, with some proposing that it relates to expressing derivatives as fractions, while others argue that this definition conflicts with established usage. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise meaning and implications of fractional differentiation.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the definitions and assumptions regarding fractional differentiation, as well as the notation used in the discussion, which may lead to misunderstandings. The relationship between the gradient, curl, and divergence in the context of fractional differentiation is also not fully clarified.

Jhenrique
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If the gradient of f is equal to differential of f wrt s: \vec{\nabla}f=\frac{df}{d\vec{s}} so, what is the curl of f and the gradient of f in terms of fractional differentiation?
 
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I'm not sure what you mean by "fractional differentiation" (wikipedia has a definition that seems very different than what you're talking about here), but these three operations are all related to the exterior derivative (if that's what you were talking about) \bf{d}.

The gradient
\nabla f = (\bf{d} f)^\sharp
The Curl
\nabla\times \bf{f}=[\star(\bf{d}\bf{f}^\flat)]^\sharp
The Divergence
\nabla\cdot \bf{f}=\star\bf{d}(\star \bf{f}^\flat)

Edit: I have no idea why the f is boldfaced in the gradient formula...and I don't know how to fix it. It should be non-boldfaced as it's a functinon.
 
Last edited:
Matterwave said:
Edit: I have no idea why the f is boldfaced in the gradient formula...and I don't know how to fix it. It should be non-boldfaced as it's a functinon.

Hmm, this is weird. It looks like a bug, thanks for bringing this to our attention.
 
Oh I should have explained my notation. The sharp and flat signs mean the musical isomorphisms which, given a metric, maps a one form to a vector and vice versa. The star is the Hodge dual operator which, again being metric dependent, maps a (k)-form to a (n-k) form where n is the dimension of the manifold.
 
Matterwave said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "fractional differentiation" (wikipedia has a definition that seems very different than what you're talking about here), but these three operations are all related to the exterior derivative (if that's what you were talking about) \bf{d}.

Fractional differentiation means, for me, express a derivative in the form of a fraction.
 
Oh, so you mean like...

$$\nabla\cdot\vec{f}=\frac{\partial f_x}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial f_y}{\partial y}+\frac{\partial f_z}{\partial z}$$

?
 
Matterwave said:
Oh, so you mean like...

$$\nabla\cdot\vec{f}=\frac{\partial f_x}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial f_y}{\partial y}+\frac{\partial f_z}{\partial z}$$

?

Yes and not. Yes because you used fraction, and not because your fraction is a scalar.

A Hessian of f, for example, can be write like:

Hf = \frac{d^2f}{d\vec{r}^2}
 
Jhenrique said:
Fractional differentiation means, for me, express a derivative in the form of a fraction.
Then your definition is at odds with how the term is already used, which has nothing to do with the derivative appearing in the form of a fraction. See this article on fractional derivatives.
 

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