Differential Equation Resolve for f(x)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around resolving the differential equation \(\frac{d^{2}f}{dx^{2}} = \sin(f)\). Participants express varying levels of familiarity with differential equations and explore the nature of the problem, noting its nonlinearity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants attempt to relate the problem to known derivatives and equations, while others suggest approximations for small values of \(f\). There is discussion about using Taylor series to expand \(\sin(f)\) for better approximations. The possibility of integrating the equation is also mentioned, leading to a first-order ODE.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants exploring different methods and approximations. Some express skepticism about the existence of a closed-form solution, while others mention potential solutions involving elliptic functions. No consensus has been reached regarding the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Several participants indicate their lack of experience with differential equations, which may affect their contributions. The nonlinear nature of the equation is a central point of discussion, and assumptions about the size of \(f\) are questioned.

Tosh5457
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Homework Statement


Resolve for f(x).

\frac{d^{2}f}{dx^{2}} = sinf


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



I haven't studied differential equations yet, so I have no idea what to do...
 
Last edited:
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The derivative of Sinx = Cosx
and the The derivative of Cosx = - Sinx
df^2/ dx^2 means you derived it twice so
after deriving for sin you will derive for cos
 
Tosh5457 said:

Homework Statement


Resolve for f(x).

\frac{d^{2}f}{dx^{2}} = sinf

I haven't studied differential equations yet, so I have no idea what to do...

That is a nonlinear equation which I doubt has a simple closed form solution. Sometimes such equations are linearized as an approximation. For small values of f you could use the approximation sin(f) ≈ f giving f'' - f = 0.
 
Myung said:
The derivative of Sinx = Cosx
and the The derivative of Cosx = - Sinx
df^2/ dx^2 means you derived it twice so
after deriving for sin you will derive for cos
If f(x) = sin(x), then d2f/dx2 = -sin(x), but this is very different from the problem in the original post. In that problem, the right side of the equation is sin(f), not sin(x). See LCKurtz's post.
 
LCKurtz said:
That is a nonlinear equation which I doubt has a simple closed form solution. Sometimes such equations are linearized as an approximation. For small values of f you could use the approximation sin(f) ≈ f giving f'' - f = 0.

Yea I thought of that, but f might not be small so I need more terms on taylor's series. If I go to the 3rd term in Taylor's series:

gif.latex?sinf%20=%20f%20-%20\frac{f^{3}}{3!}.gif


Does it have a closed form solution this way?
 
I don't think so. Adding that cubic term makes the equation nonlinear.
 
Tosh5457 said:
Yea I thought of that, but f might not be small so I need more terms on taylor's series. If I go to the 3rd term in Taylor's series:

gif.latex?sinf%20=%20f%20-%20\frac{f^{3}}{3!}.gif


Does it have a closed form solution this way?

Maple gives a solution in terms of JacobiSN functions. These involve inverses of elliptic integrals and doubly periodic functions, for what it's worth.
 
Tosh5457 said:

Homework Statement


Resolve for f(x).

\frac{d^{2}f}{dx^{2}} = sinf


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



I haven't studied differential equations yet, so I have no idea what to do...

That equation is analogous to the non-linear pendulum which can be solved analytically. First start by integrating it:

\int \frac{d^2f}{dx^2}=\int \sin(f)

1/2 \left(\frac{df}{dx}\right)^2=-\cos(f)+c

we're then left with a first order ODE, the solution of which can be expressed in terms of elliptic functions.
 

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