Differential Geometry: Comparing Metric Tensors

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of metric tensors in differential geometry, particularly focusing on their application to product manifolds and the relationships between different metrics on the same manifold. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical definitions, and potential applications in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether two different metric tensors describing different manifolds can be used together meaningfully, while others clarify that this is not typically the case, but two metrics on the same manifold can induce different geometries.
  • There is a discussion on defining a metric on a product manifold from the metrics of its factors, with some participants agreeing on a method of adding metrics from the factors.
  • One participant suggests that while product metrics on the torus are flat, most metrics are not product metrics, leading to questions about curvature properties.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the standard practices in physics regarding the use of metrics and whether there is a consensus on the approach to defining metrics on product manifolds.
  • There is a mention of the curvature tensor of product metrics and its implications, with some participants questioning the curvature properties of specific examples like the torus.
  • Participants discuss the challenges of projecting metrics onto factors and the limitations of recovering original metrics from projections.
  • One participant raises the idea of determining when a space is homeomorphic to a product space, suggesting that trivial bundles could be a criterion for such identification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement on various points, particularly regarding the definitions and properties of metrics on product manifolds. There is no clear consensus on the standard practices in physics or the implications of different metrics on curvature.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions highlight limitations in defining metrics on factors and the dependence on specific choices, such as points in the manifold. The conversation also touches on unresolved mathematical steps related to curvature and the nature of product metrics.

  • #31
Infrared said:
The proof does not consider the degree of a map ##X\to X##, but of a map ##X^4\to X^4##. This makes sense because ##X^4\cong\mathbb{R}^6##. I think @WWGD had a typo of ##X^6## for ##\mathbb{R}^6## in his post.

Not really my point. The underlying intuition was that the iterated mapping ##h^2## on ##X^4## is orientation preserving. So how is ##X^4## orientable in the first place? What does that mean?E.g.if ##X## is a non-orientable manifold then ##X^4## is also non-orientable. For instance the four fold Cartesian product of the real projective plane with itself is not orientable. In fact is ##w_{i}## is the generator of its first ##Z_3## cohomology then the first Stiefel-Whitney class of the four fouldCartesian product is ##w_1+w_2+w_3+w_4##.

BTW: I am curious to see your Kunneth formula proof.
 
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  • #32
Sorry I must be missing something. ##\mathbb{R}^6## is orientable, and ##X^4## is homeomorphic to ##\mathbb{R}^6##, so it is also orientable. If you're asking what definition of orientable works here, I think you can use the usual definition of being able to consistently choose generators for the local homology groups ##H_6(X^4,X^4-\text{point})##.
 
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  • #33
Infrared said:
Sorry I must be missing something. ##\mathbb{R}^6## is orientable, and ##X^4## is homeomorphic to ##\mathbb{R}^6##, so it is also orientable. If you're asking what definition of orientable works here, I think you can use the usual definition of being able to consistently choose generators for the local homology groups ##H_6(X^4,X^4-\text{point})##.

Right. Now I get it. Nice.

There is a theorem here that is implicitly assumed which is that the square of any homeomorphism of an orientable manifold is orientation preserving. This is clear for a compact manifold but for a non-compact manifold, how does one prove it?
 
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  • #36
Infrared said:
The proof does not consider the degree of a map ##X\to X##, but of a map ##X^4\to X^4##. This makes sense because ##X^4\cong\mathbb{R}^6##. I think @WWGD had a typo of ##X^6## for ##\mathbb{R}^6## in his post.
Myb bad, thanks for pointing it out , for links and followup. I am editing as we speak.
 
  • #37
lavinia said:
There is a theorem here that is implicitly assumed which is that the square of any homeomorphism of an orientable manifold is orientation preserving. This is clear for a compact manifold but for a non-compact manifold, how does one prove it?

I think the point is the same as in the closed case. If ##X## is orientable, then all of the local homology groups ##H_n(X,X-\text{point})## are naturally isomorphic (identify the preferred generators), so a homeomorphism ##f:X\to X## with ##f(x_1)=x_2## gives an isomorphism ##H_n(X,X-x_1)\to H_n(X,X-x_2)\cong H_n(X,X-x_1),## and then ##f\circ f## has to induce the identity, so ##f\circ f## preserves orientation.

The only difference from the closed case is that the generators are not induced by a homology class of ##X##.
 
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  • #38
Infrared said:
I think the point is the same as in the closed case. If ##X## is orientable, then all of the local homology groups ##H_n(X,X-\text{point})## are naturally isomorphic (identify the preferred generators), so a homeomorphism ##f:X\to X## with ##f(x_1)=x_2## gives an isomorphism ##H_n(X,X-x_1)\to H_n(X,X-x_2)\cong H_n(X,X-x_1),## and then ##f\circ f## has to induce the identity, so ##f\circ f## preserves orientation.

The only difference from the closed case is that the generators are not induced by a homology class of ##X##.
Right. Two oriented charts are connected by a path of overlapping oriented charts.
 

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