Differential k-form vs (0,k) tensor field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on clarifying the differences between differential k-forms and (0,k) tensor fields within the context of differential geometry, particularly on a 2D differential manifold. Participants explore definitions, properties, and relationships between these mathematical constructs.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a differential 2-form can be viewed as a specific type of (0,2) tensor field defined on a 2D manifold.
  • Another participant emphasizes that forms are totally antisymmetric, which distinguishes them from general tensor products.
  • It is noted that the wedge product of two forms results in an antisymmetrized version, while the tensor product does not maintain this property.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the notation and definitions of k-forms and their relationship to tensor spaces, including distinctions between k-forms at a point and k-form fields over the manifold.
  • Participants discuss the vector subspace relationships between k-forms and tensor products, noting that k-forms at a point are contained within the tensor product space.
  • There is a correction regarding the mapping of k-forms at a point, specifying that they should be multilinear maps from the product of tangent spaces rather than from the tensor product space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between k-forms and (0,k) tensor fields, with some agreeing on certain definitions while others challenge or refine these definitions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise nature of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of distinguishing between k-form fields and k-forms at specific points, as well as the implications of antisymmetry in the context of tensor products.

cianfa72
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TL;DR
Clarification about differential k-form vs (0,k) tensor field
Hi,

I would like to ask for a clarification about the difference between a differential k-form and a generic (0,k) tensor field.

Take for instance a (non simple) differential 2-form defined on a 2D differential manifold with coordinates ##\{x^{\mu}\}##. It can be assigned as linear combination of terms ##dx^{\mu} \wedge dx^{\nu}## and it is basically a multi-linear application from ##V \times V## to ##\mathbb R## (##V## is the tangent vector space at each point of the 2D manifold). So I think a 2-form is actually just a particular (0,2) tensor field defined on the 2D manifold.

Is that right ? Thank you.
 
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The key aspect is that forms are totally antisymmetric. That's also why we have the wedge product ##\wedge : \Lambda^k(M) \times \Lambda^l(M) \rightarrow \Lambda^{k+l}(M)##, because the tensor product \begin{align*}
R(\mathbf{e}_1, \mathbf{e}_2) \equiv (S \otimes T)(\mathbf{e}_1, \mathbf{e}_2) = S(\mathbf{e}_1) T(\mathbf{e}_2)
\end{align*}of two forms isn't a form. But the antisymmetrised version is:
\begin{align*}
R'(\mathbf{e}_1, \mathbf{e}_2) \equiv (S \wedge T)(\mathbf{e}_1, \mathbf{e}_2) = S(\mathbf{e}_1) T(\mathbf{e}_2) - T(\mathbf{e}_1) S(\mathbf{e}_2)
\end{align*}The generalisation to forms of higher degree is straightforward, viz\begin{align*}
(U \wedge V)(\mathbf{e}_1, \dots, \mathbf{e}_n) = \dfrac{1}{k! l!} \sum_{\sigma} \mathrm{sgn}(\sigma) U(\mathbf{e}_{\sigma(1)}, \dots) V(\mathbf{e}_{\sigma(k+1)}, \dots)
\end{align*}
 
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ergospherical said:
The key aspect is that forms are totally antisymmetric. That's also why we have the wedge product ##\wedge : \Lambda^p(M) \times \Lambda^q(M) \rightarrow \Lambda^{p+q}(M)##, because the tensor product \begin{align*}
R(\mathbf{e}_1, \mathbf{e}_2) \equiv (S \otimes T)(\mathbf{e}_1, \mathbf{e}_2) = S(\mathbf{e}_1) T(\mathbf{e}_2)
\end{align*}of two forms isn't a form. But the antisymmetrised version is:
\begin{align*}
R'(\mathbf{e}_1, \mathbf{e}_2) \equiv (S \wedge T)(\mathbf{e}_1, \mathbf{e}_2) = S(\mathbf{e}_1) T(\mathbf{e}_2) - T(\mathbf{e}_1) S(\mathbf{e}_2)
\end{align*}
I take it as if ##S## and ##T## are two different one-forms -- i.e. two (0,1) tensors defined on manifold-- then their tensor product is not totally antisymmetric.

Instead their antisymmetric version ##S \wedge T## is.

On the other hand the set of k-forms ##\Lambda^k(M)## on the tangent vector space ##T_p(M)## is actually a vector subspace of the tensor product vector space ##\otimes ^ k (M)##.
 
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cianfa72 said:
On the other hand the set of k-forms ##\Lambda^k(M)## on the tangent vector space ##T_p(M)## is actually a vector subspace of the tensor product vector space ##\otimes ^ k (M)##.
Careful,
  • ##\Lambda^k M## is the set of ##k##-forms on ##M##
  • ##\Lambda^k_p M \equiv \wedge^k T_p^* M## is the set of ##k##-forms at the point ##p \in M##, and is contained within ##\otimes^k T_p^* M##
And ##\otimes^k M## doesn't mean anything
 
ergospherical said:
Careful,
  • ##\Lambda^k M## is the set of ##k##-forms on ##M##
  • ##\Lambda^k_p M \equiv \wedge^k T_p^* M## is the set of ##k##-forms at the point ##p \in M##, and is contained within ##\otimes^k T_p^* M##
ok, so ##\Lambda^k M## is really the set of ##k##-forms defined at each point of the manifold ##M##, right ?

##\wedge^k T_p^* M## as subset of ##\otimes^k T_p^* M## turns out to be a vector subspace of it.
 
cianfa72 said:
ok, so ##\Lambda^k M## is really the set of ##k##-forms defined at each point of the manifold ##M##, right ?
No. Strictly one should make the distinction between
  • ##k##-form fields ##\Lambda^k M \ni \omega : M \rightarrow \wedge^k T_p^* M##
  • ##k##-forms at the point ##p##, that is, ##\wedge^k T_p^* M \ni \omega_p : \times^k T_p M \rightarrow \mathbf{R}##.
Which is to say that the ##k##-form field ##\omega## is a smooth assignment of ##k##-forms ##\omega_p## to each point in ##p \in M##.
 
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ergospherical said:
No. Strictly one should make the distinction between
  • ##k##-form fields ##\Lambda^k M \ni \omega : M \rightarrow \wedge^k T_p^* M##
  • ##k##-forms at the point ##p##, that is, ##\wedge^k T_p^* M \ni \omega_p : \otimes^k T_p M \rightarrow \mathbf{R}##.
Which is to say that the ##k##-form field ##\omega## is a smooth assignment of ##k##-forms ##\omega_p## to each point in ##p \in M##.
Sorry, ##\omega_p## should be a multilinear map from ##\times^k T_p M## to ##\mathbf{R}## and not from ##\otimes^k T_p M## to ##\mathbf{R}##, I believe..
 
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cianfa72 said:
Sorry, ##\omega_p## should be a multilinear map from ##\times^k T_p M## to ##\mathbf{R}## and not from ##\otimes^k T_p M## to ##\mathbf{R}##, I believe..
Yes, good catch. :smile:
 

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