Differentiation anomoly-in need of setting straight

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differentiation of the equation x + y = x * y, specifically focusing on the different methods of differentiation (implicit vs. algebraic) and the resulting expressions for dy/dx. Participants explore the discrepancies between their answers and the provided answer key, raising questions about the correctness of their approaches and the equivalence of the results.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant initially attempted to solve the equation by isolating y, resulting in y = x / (x-1), but found that the answer was incorrect.
  • Another participant pointed out that the two expressions (y-1)/(1-x) and (1-y)/(x-1) are equivalent, suggesting a misunderstanding in the original claim.
  • A different participant calculated dy/dx from y = x/(x-1) and derived the expression (1-y)/(x-1), indicating a connection between the algebraic and implicit differentiation methods.
  • Some participants discussed the nature of implicit differentiation, with one questioning whether it is considered "the easy way" and clarifying their reasoning for choosing a non-implicit method.
  • One participant acknowledged their earlier confusion regarding the equivalence of the answers after realizing that both expressions differed only by a factor of -1.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods of differentiation and the equivalence of the resulting expressions. While some clarify misunderstandings, there remains uncertainty about the implications of the different approaches and the correctness of the answer key.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the interpretation of the expressions derived from implicit differentiation and algebraic manipulation, as well as the context of the answer key provided.

DyslexicHobo
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Differentiation anomoly--in need of setting straight!

I was studying for the AP calculus exam when I came across this question, which seems to have multiple answers. I cannot seem to find what is wrong with it (nor can my calc teacher).

Find dy/dx if x + y = x * y

I went about this problem the "easy way out". Instead of implicitly differentiating, I figured I could do some algebra to simplify it to y = x / (x-1). I saw the answers, and only one of them did not have a "y" in the answer, so I picked that one. It was wrong.

When solved implicitly, a different answer is found: (y-1)/(1-x). This is STILL different than what our answer key has, which is (1-y)/(x-1).

Can someone please help resolve this? Thanks!
 
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What ever other problems you're having:

When solved implicitly, a different answer is found: (y-1)/(1-x). This is STILL different than what our answer key has, which is (1-y)/(x-1).

contains a mistake on your part. The two answers written there are the same.
 
If you differentiate [tex]y=\frac{x}{x-1}[/tex], you get [tex]\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{(x-1)-x}{(x-1)^2}[/tex].

Divide by [tex]\frac{x-1}{x-1}: \frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{1-\frac{x}{x-1}}{x-1}[/tex]

Substitute [tex]y=\frac{x}{x-1}[/tex]: [tex]\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{1-y}{x-1}[/tex]
 
When solved implicitly, a different answer is found: (y-1)/(1-x). This is STILL different than what our answer key has, which is (1-y)/(x-1).

No... it's just negative on the top and bottom. Multiply your answer by 1 = -1/-1 and see what you get
 
DyslexicHobo said:
I went about this problem the "easy way out". Instead of implicitly differentiating...

Isn't implicit differentiation "the easy way"?

1 + dy/dx = y + x dy/dx

1-y = (x-1)dy/dx

dy/dx = (1-y)/(x-1)
 
AlephZero said:
Isn't implicit differentiation "the easy way"?

1 + dy/dx = y + x dy/dx

1-y = (x-1)dy/dx

dy/dx = (1-y)/(x-1)

What I meant is that, because I could see that it simplified to y = *stuff with no y*, I figured that dy/dx MUST not have a y in it. There was only one choice without one, so I chose that. It was the easy way out because I did not do any differentiating at all.

Also, I figured out my problem. Both answers were the same, but had a "y", and the other did not. When a substitution was made for "y", the answers were identical.

And yeah... I can't believe I didn't notice that the answer simply divided by a factor of (-1). Wow I feel dumb! :-P


All here is well, thank you for the help.
 

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