Digitial Logic and Binary Counter

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    Binary Counter Logic
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the operation of a binary counter in digital logic, specifically focusing on the initial state of the counter and how it responds to input signals. Participants explore the implications of different starting conditions and the nature of the input signal.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the counter starts at 000 or 001 when the input begins with a 1, indicating uncertainty about the initial state.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on whether the counter is an up or down counter, and whether the input is a clock signal or an enable clock signal.
  • Some participants discuss the behavior of flip-flops and counters, noting that a counter accumulates a numeric total based on input pulses and typically starts at zero.
  • There is mention of two possibilities regarding the clock signal starting with a 1: it may be prefixed with suppressed zeros or the counter may have been reset to zero when the input was set to 1.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the statement that outputs start at zero and add one with each transition from 0 to 1, indicating a misunderstanding of the counting process.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the need to specify initial conditions and assumptions when they are not clearly identified in the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the initial state of the counter and the interpretation of the input signal. There is no consensus on whether the counter starts at 000 or 001, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the input signal's initial state.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the initial condition of the circuit is crucial for solving the problem, and assumptions must be stated clearly when not explicitly defined. The discussion references a textbook figure that may provide additional context, but its content is not fully agreed upon.

ver_mathstats
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Homework Statement
We are required to find the output of a three-bit binary counter when the input is 1100101001.
Relevant Equations
input: 1100101001
10000
10000
00011
00011
1
0
1
0
0
1

On the left is my input, in the middle is my output and on the right is the decimal.

00000
00000
10011
00011
10102

Here is another example I was studying where the input is 00101 and I understand where each number is coming from and how it operates but I struggle with the first one because the input starts with a 1, so does that mean my counter starts at 000 because it still has not flipped yet? Or does it start at 001 right away because the input begins at 1? So I completed the first three columns and not sure if I am on the right track if someone could tell me that would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
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What is the initial state of the counter ?
Is it an up or a down counter ?
Is the input a clock signal or an enable clock signal ?
Is the input positive or negative edge advanced ?
 
Baluncore said:
What is the initial state of the counter ?
Is it an up or a down counter ?
Is the input a clock signal or an enable clock signal ?
Is the input positive or negative edge advanced ?
"A single flip-flop only offers two possible output values: 0 or 1. However, a set of flip-flops can be connected in series to form a binary counter that accumulates a numeric total. Like a flipflop, a counter has a single input. Unlike a flip-flop, however, a counter has multiple outputs. The outputs count how many input pulses have been detected by giving a numerical total in binary†. We think of the outputs as starting at zero and adding one each time the input transitions from 0 to 1. Thus, a counter that has three output lines can accumulate a total between 0 and 7. Figure 2.19 illustrates a counter, and shows how the outputs change when the input changes. In practice, an electronic part that implements a binary counter has several additional features. For example, a counter has an additional input used to reset the count to zero, and may also have an input that temporarily stops the counter (i.e., ignores the input and freezes the output). More important, because it has a fixed number of output pins, each counter has a maximum value it can represent. When the accumulated count exceeds the maximum value, the counter resets the output to zero and uses an additional output to indicate that an overflow occurred." This was given from my textbook. I'm assuming that even though the input starts at 1 the output will be 000, after rereading my textbook.
 
ver_mathstats said:
This was given from my textbook.
The answers to my four questions are in the text you quote.
You need to dig those answers out, before you can solve this type of problem.

ver_mathstats said:
... I'm assuming that even though the input starts at 1 the output will be 000, ...
If the clock signal starts with a 1 = "1100101001" then there are two possibilities.
A. The clock signal might be prefixed with many suppressed zeros. 000000001100101001 or;
B. The clock input was set at 1 when the counter was reset and cleared to zero.

Maybe Figure 2.19 contains more information on the initial state of the clock.
 
Baluncore said:
The answers to my four questions are in the text you quote.
You need to dig those answers out, before you can solve this type of problem.If the clock signal starts with a 1 = "1100101001" then there are two possibilities.
A. The clock signal might be prefixed with many suppressed zeros. 000000001100101001 or;
B. The clock input was set at 1 when the counter was reset and cleared to zero.

Maybe Figure 2.19 contains more information on the initial state of the clock.
Figure 2.19 is the example I included in the question that I was studying and I understand it completely, the only thing throwing me off "We think of the outputs as starting at zero and adding one each time the input transitions from 0 to 1"? So my attempt I see I already messed up by changing the counter when it went from 1 to 0, now my only issue is still trying to determine if I start at 000 which I am going to assume yes?
 
ver_mathstats said:
... , now my only issue is still trying to determine if I start at 000 which I am going to assume yes?
ver_mathstats said:
For example, a counter has an additional input used to reset the count to zero, and may also have an input that temporarily stops the counter (i.e., ignores the input and freezes the output).
Correct. If the initial condition of a circuit is not clearly identified in the question, you must state that, and specify your assumption clearly.
 
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Baluncore said:
Correct. If the initial condition of a circuit is not clearly identified in the question, you must state that, and specify your assumption clearly.
Thank you very much, I got it now
 

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