Discover the Science Behind Acidic Water Molecules | Innovations Report"

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of "acidic water molecules" as mentioned in an article from Innovations Report. Participants explore the definitions, implications, and contexts in which this term is used, touching on theoretical and practical aspects of acidity in water and related chemical concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that acidic water molecules refer to water that has a preponderance of H+ ions, specifically in the form of hydronium ions (H3O+).
  • Others argue that the term "acidic water molecules" is unclear and provide examples from literature where water molecules can more easily give up protons, indicating a context-dependent definition.
  • One participant notes that acidity cannot exist without water, emphasizing that even strong acids require a solvent to exhibit acidic properties.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of a molecule, with some questioning whether H3O+ qualifies as a molecule or merely an ion.
  • A participant introduces the concept of H3+ as an interstellar molecular ion that can protonate water, suggesting a broader context for acidic water in astrophysics.
  • Some participants mention the possibility of negative pH values and reference superacids, indicating a complexity in the understanding of acidity beyond typical definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and implications of "acidic water molecules." There is no consensus on what the term specifically means, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding its precise interpretation and context.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the ambiguity of the term "acidic water molecules," dependence on specific chemical contexts, and unresolved definitions of what constitutes a molecule versus an ion.

RJ Emery
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Given the following article:

http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/studien/bericht-96564.html

What are "acidic water molecules"?
 
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RJ Emery said:
Given the following article:

http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/studien/bericht-96564.html

What are "acidic water molecules"?
Well, if the water is dissociated into H and OH, I guess a preponderance of H would make it acidic. But that H is not a molecule.

I just went looking in wiki for pH and they talk about H3O+ as a sort of substitute for H, so maybe that's what they're talking about.
 
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DaveC426913 said:
Well, if the water is dissociated into H and OH, I guess a preponderance of H would make it acidic. But that H is not a molecule.

I just went looking in wiki for pH and they talk about H3O+ as a sort of substitute for H, so maybe that's what they're talking about.

That formula, \[<br /> H_3 O^{ + 1} <br /> \]<br />, represents both an ion and a solvated proton; not a molecule
 
What makes things acidic is H+ ions, right?

That's only correct to a certain extent. When we refer to H+ ions, we refer to the hydronium ion, H3O+ as some have said. This is what makes acidity. You can't have acidity without water. So you can have the most intense acid in the world, with a pH of 1 or something, but if you remove the water content from it, it will not be acidic.
 
Just what the authors of the innovations report mean by acidic
water is not clear to me. To see one example of how the phrase
"acidic water molecules" is actually used by chemists, go to
http://www.rsc.org/ej/CC/2001/b103533a.pdf

Toward the end of the article you read:

"...When phenylboronic acid is then added to the
methanol solution water molecules present in the methanol
coordinate with the boron Lewis acid and become more
acidic. These more acidic water molecules can now
protonate compounds 1 and 3 as well as compound 2."

So, acidic water molecules are simply molecules of water
that can more easily give up a proton. Note that water is
not necessary to have an acid. An acid is a substance that can
take up an electron pair to form a covalent bond.
For example, boron trichloride (BF3) is
an acid and combines with such bases as ammonia or ethyl ether.
 
Invictious said:
So you can have the most intense acid in the world, with a pH of 1 or something,
I think you meant 7.
 
symbolipoint said:
That formula, \[<br /> H_3 O^{ + 1} <br /> \]<br />, represents both an ion and a solvated proton; not a molecule
I know it's an ion but isn't a molecule any combination of 2 or more atoms? Or have things changed since I was in H.S.?
 
By far the most abundant interstellar polyatomic molecule aside from H2 is H3+. Since the proton affinity of H2 is extremely low, this abundant molecular ion is a strong acid and will protonate anything it comes across, including water. This produces the ion H3O+ which has a characteristic far infrared spectrum that can be observed with the proper equipment. This is what is meant by interstellar acidic water.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1567864" is a paper on the subject.
 
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Invictious said:
What makes things acidic is H+ ions, right?

That's only correct to a certain extent. When we refer to H+ ions, we refer to the hydronium ion, H3O+ as some have said. This is what makes acidity. You can't have acidity without water. So you can have the most intense acid in the world, with a pH of 1 or something, but if you remove the water content from it, it will not be acidic.

Actually, the pH scale can be extrapolated into the negative range. There are reports of http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/esthag/2000/34/i02/abs/es990646v.html" (superfund site) for example.

Of course, this is nothing compared to the strength of superacids. Search "George Olah" for more information on that subject.
 
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  • #10
chemisttree said:
Actually, the pH scale can be extrapolated into the negative range. There are reports of http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/esthag/2000/34/i02/abs/es990646v.html" (superfund site) for example.
Amazing! And sometimes people struggle to find a way to buy some sulphuric acid; there is gratis!
 
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  • #11
If you don't mind all the heavy metals!
 

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