Displacement and electric field

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between displacement (D) and electric field (E) in the context of a dielectric material, specifically focusing on the dielectric constant (ε) which is dependent on volume (V) and temperature (T). The original poster seeks to express the differential change in D (dD) in terms of changes in V, T, and E.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of the dielectric constant's dependence on volume and temperature, questioning how to express changes in ε in relation to dV and dT. There is discussion on whether dε can be excluded from the expression for dD, leading to some confusion about the relationships involved.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, attempting to derive expressions for dD and dε. Some have proposed formulations for dD based on their interpretations, while others are questioning the assumptions made regarding the exclusion of dε. The conversation reflects a mix of interpretations and attempts to clarify the mathematical relationships.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing debate about the necessity of including dε in the expressions, as well as the implications of the problem's constraints on the variables involved. Participants are navigating the complexities of the problem without reaching a definitive consensus.

chemphys1
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Homework Statement



displacement and electric field related by D=εE where dielectric constant depends on volume and temperature. Express dD in terms of dV, dT and dE

(this is just a part of a question but want to make sure I have it right else the rest of the 'showing' and proofs are never going to work out)


The Attempt at a Solution



so taking D=εE

Then dD = εdV (because it is volume dependent) + εdT (temperature dependent)

what happens to the E, is it Edε + edE as well as the above
although it can't be dε because it says express in terms of dT dV and dE, no dε mentioned?

is any of that on the right lines?

any help appreciated
 
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D=εE where dielectric constant depends on volume and temperature.
We can write that predicate statement as ε = ε(V, T).
Based on that, you need to find an expression for dε in terms of dV and dT.
What would be the change in ε if T stays constant and V increases by dV?
 
chemphys1 said:

... dielectric constant depends on volume and temperature. although it can't be dε because it says express in terms of dT dV and dE, no dε mentioned?

/QUOTE]

The above is self-contradicory.

How can there be no dε when it says ε varies with T and V?
 
haruspex said:
We can write that predicate statement as ε = ε(V, T).
Based on that, you need to find an expression for dε in terms of dV and dT.
What would be the change in ε if T stays constant and V increases by dV?

as in like this?

dε = (∂ε/∂V)dV + (∂ε/∂T)dT

where does dD =
come into this?
 
rude man said:
chemphys1 said:

... dielectric constant depends on volume and temperature. although it can't be dε because it says express in terms of dT dV and dE, no dε mentioned?

/QUOTE]

The above is self-contradicory.

How can there be no dε when it says ε varies with T and V?


true
I'm not very good at interpreting what maths questions mean/are saying :confused:
 
come up with this

dD = E∂ε + εdE

where

dε = (∂ε/∂V)dV + (∂ε/∂T)dT

overall

dD = E [(∂ε/∂V)dV + (∂ε/∂T)dT] + εdE

is that what I should be getting?
 
chemphys1 said:
come up with this

dD = Edε + εdE

where

dε = (∂ε/∂V)dV + (∂ε/∂T)dT

overall

dD = E [(∂ε/∂V)dV + (∂ε/∂T)dT] + εdE

is that what I should be getting?

Excellent!
 

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