Displacement of the node, superposition of forces

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the displacement of a specific node in a structural system using the method of superposition of forces. Participants explore various approaches to analyze the forces acting on different elements of the structure, particularly focusing on the implications of different flexural rigidities (EI) and the resulting displacements.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on how to divide the forces to determine the displacement at node 4, indicating a need for clarity on the application of superposition.
  • Another participant outlines a six-stage approach to analyze the problem, suggesting a method that involves treating the vertical beam as a lever and calculating slopes and displacements sequentially.
  • A participant questions how to obtain the slope of the horizontal beam and proposes dividing it into four elements for analysis.
  • One participant confirms the use of superposition and emphasizes the importance of considering the signs of the slopes due to different loads and moments.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about their assumptions in previous calculations and seeks clarification on the necessary assumptions for accurately determining the final displacement at the middle node.
  • A participant points out a potential error in the direction of the moment in the diagram and stresses the need to focus on the slope at the joining point rather than the vertical deflection.
  • One participant agrees with the previous correction and mentions their intention to find formulas for calculating the change in slope based on position, particularly for the middle of the beam.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the use of superposition as a valid approach for this problem. However, there are multiple competing views on how to accurately calculate slopes and displacements, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific assumptions and methods to be used.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the need for clarity on the assumptions regarding the flexural rigidity of the beams and the specific conditions under which the calculations are made. There is also an unresolved discussion about the correct interpretation of moments and their signs in the context of the problem.

margareta
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Homework Statement


Hi,
I was wondering if anybody has an idea how to divide the forces on this structure to get the dispacement of the node 4.
upload_2017-2-22_10-49-8.png

2. Formulas
I would like to solve this task by superpositioning forces working on different elements of the construction. (note different EI)
using basic values for basic beams:
upload_2017-2-22_10-58-51.png

The Attempt at a Solution


upload_2017-2-22_10-56-14.png

? should it be devided like this?
but then, how would i consider displacement at the node 2?
upload_2017-2-22_10-49-45.png

[/B]
 

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Proceed in six stages :

(1) Treat the vertical beam initially as just a lever which is applying a bending moment to the horizontal beam at the point where the two join .

(2) Work out the slope of the horizontal beam at the point where the two join .

(3) From that slope work out the displacement of the bottom of the vertical beam using geometry .

(4) Now treat the vertical beam as a cantilever fixed at the top to some fictional rigid structure .

(5) Work out the deflection caused by the load applied at the bottom end .

(6) Add the deflection from (3) to the deflection from (5) to get the total deflection .
 
Last edited:
ok. I understand, however I have a question how to get the slope of the horizontal beam. Can I divide this beam into 4 elements like this:
upload_2017-2-22_11-29-15.png
 
You can use superposition for this simple problem .

Work out the slope due to the distributed load and to the lever moment separately and add them together . Pay attention to signs when doing this .
 
I guess I made some wrong superposition assumptions considering case 3,4. Could u please tell me, what kind of assumptions should i do to get the final displacement in this middle node. This task has to be solved using superposition of forces
upload_2017-2-22_12-21-29.png
 
Your M as shown in top diagram is turning the wrong way .

You need to work out the slope at the joining point not the vertical deflection .
 
Yes. I agree. On the top diagram it is just the exaple of how forces work in case of my beam. In case 2 i take the moment with correct sign.
i will try to find the formulas for calculating the change of the slope depending on the position of x. cause i need it for my case 3, where i want to calculate the angle in the middle of the beam.
 

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