Displacement vs time under a time varying speed limit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the modeling of a car's displacement over time under a time-varying speed limit, represented by a function g(x,t). Participants explore the formulation of a differential equation that describes the car's location s(t) as it adheres to the speed limit. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, mathematical modeling, and potential applications in continuum mechanics and fluid dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if s(t) is one-to-one, then the relationship s'(t) = g(s^{-1}(t),t) can be considered a differential equation.
  • Others clarify that the correct formulation should be s'(t) = g(s(t),t), acknowledging an earlier mistake.
  • It is noted that the speed limit function g(x,t) may take negative values, which could affect the modeling.
  • Some participants suggest that the problem is akin to those found in continuum mechanics, where the local velocity of a fluid is determined by solving a system of partial differential equations.
  • One participant questions whether the speed limit truly depends on time, leading to a discussion about real-world examples where speed limits change based on time (e.g., school zones).
  • Another participant suggests that if g is piecewise constant, then s could be piecewise linear, indicating a potential method for solving the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the formulation of the differential equation and the implications of the speed limit's dependence on time. There is no consensus on the existence of a simple closed-form solution, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to modeling the situation.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the speed limit function g(x,t) is differentiable and may be piecewise constant, but they do not reach a definitive conclusion on the implications of these characteristics for solving the differential equation.

Stephen Tashi
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TL;DR
The speed limits on a straight road are given by a known function g(x,t) where x is the location on the road and t is time. A car starts at x = 0 at time t= 0 and always drives at the speed limit. The location of the car is given by the (unknown) function s(t). Is there a differential equation that defines s(t)?
The speed limits on a straight road are given by a known function g(x,t) where x is the location on the road and t is time. A car starts at x = 0 at time t= 0 and always drives at the speed limit. The location of the car is given by the (unknown) function s(t). Is there a differential equation that defines s(t)? Assume g(x,t) is differentiable function (unlike the way real speed limit laws are).

(The motivation for the problem is wondering about how to model a "disturbance" propagating through a medium where the properties of the medium determine the velocity at which the disturbance propagates - but the version using a car and speed limits sounds more concrete.)

If ##s(t)## is 1-to-1 then we have ##s'(t) = g( s^{-1}(t),t)##. That could be called a differential equation, but is there a more usual type of differential equation for it?
 
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Stephen Tashi said:
If ##s(t)## is 1-to-1 then we have ##s'(t) = g( s^{-1}(t),t)##. That could be called a differential equation, but is there a more usual type of differential equation for it?

Why is ##x=s^{-1}(t)##??
 
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hutchphd said:
Why is ##x=s^{-1}(t)##??

Why indeed! I'm wrong. It should be ##s'(t) = g(s(t),t)##.

I should also clarify that the speed limit ##g(x,t)## may be a negative number.
 
Stephen Tashi said:
Why indeed! I'm wrong. It should be ##s'(t) = g(s(t),t)##.
This is called a first order ordinary differential equation. If the equation is linear, i.e. of the form: $$s'(t) = sf(t) + h(t)$$ Then it can be solved in general using an integrating factor.

If the equation is non-linear, then there is no general analytic method of solution. See, for example:

https://www-thphys.physics.ox.ac.uk/people/FrancescoHautmann/Cp4/sl_ode_11_2.pdf
 
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Stephen Tashi said:
Summary:: The speed limits on a straight road are given by a known function g(x,t) where x is the location on the road and t is time. A car starts at x = 0 at time t= 0 and always drives at the speed limit. The location of the car is given by the (unknown) function s(t). Is there a differential equation that defines s(t)?

The speed limits on a straight road are given by a known function g(x,t) where x is the location on the road and t is time. A car starts at x = 0 at time t= 0 and always drives at the speed limit. The location of the car is given by the (unknown) function s(t). Is there a differential equation that defines s(t)? Assume g(x,t) is differentiable function (unlike the way real speed limit laws are).

(The motivation for the problem is wondering about how to model a "disturbance" propagating through a medium where the properties of the medium determine the velocity at which the disturbance propagates - but the version using a car and speed limits sounds more concrete.)

This sounds like a problem in continuum mechanics.

Stephen Tashi said:
Why indeed! I'm wrong. It should be ##s'(t) = g(s(t),t)##.

I should also clarify that the speed limit ##g(x,t)## may be a negative number.
This result will hold even if g is negative.

Indeed in fluid mechanics one has the local fluid velocity \mathbf{u}(\mathbf{x},t) which is found by solving a system of PDEs and the trajectory of a particular particle can then be found by solving <br /> \frac{d \mathbf{X}}{dt} = \mathbf{u}(\mathbf{X}(t),t).
 
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Does the speed limit really depend on time? Given the setup in the op, you can probably write this as
##\frac{ds}{dt} = g(s)##
And then you can solve it using separation of variables.
 
Office_Shredder said:
Does the speed limit really depend on time?
Yes, the way I'm thinking of the problem. For example, with real speed limits, there are signs on streets near schools that say "25 MPH when flashing" .
 
In that case I don't think there is going to be a nice closed form solution that's easy to write down. If g is piecewise constant then you know that s is piecewise linear, and computing all the pieces and gluing them together doesn't seem to be that hard to me.
 

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