Divergence of Newton's law of gravitation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the divergence of Newton's law of gravitation, particularly focusing on the mathematical treatment of gravitational fields in different coordinate systems. Participants explore the implications of divergence in spherical versus Cartesian coordinates and the concept of divergence at a point mass.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the calculation of the divergence of the gravitational field and whether the product rule is involved.
  • Another participant suggests using spherical coordinates for the divergence calculation, indicating that Cartesian coordinates complicate the problem.
  • It is noted that the gravitational field has a divergence of zero everywhere except at the origin, where it is undefined (0/0), and is proposed to be represented by a Dirac delta function.
  • Several participants agree that computing the divergence in spherical coordinates is straightforward, while it is more complex in Cartesian coordinates.
  • There is a suggestion that the divergence of gravitational acceleration could equal -4πGM, linking it to the integral of divergence over a volume and the surface integral of the gravitational field.
  • A participant requests proof of the relationship between the integral of divergence and the surface integral, referencing the divergence theorem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of coordinate systems for calculating divergence and whether the divergence at the origin can be represented as a Dirac delta function. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these calculations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on coordinate choice, the undefined nature of divergence at the origin, and the assumptions underlying the use of the divergence theorem.

bitrex
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I am studying vector calculus, and I saw the following result in a physics text:

g = -\frac{m}{r^3}\vec{r}
r^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2
\vec{r} = ix + jy +kz

\nabla \cdot g = 0

I'm not sure how this was done. Is the product rule used somehow? What happened to the extra power of r? Thanks for any advice.
 
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It helps to use the spherical version of divergence.
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I don't expect you to know the spherical version (few people know it by heart), but doing that problem in cartesian coordinates is only for masochists.

This is actually an interesting problem, though. That field is the gravitational field of a point mass (or electric field of a point charge) at the origin. Since there is a nonzero field everywhere, you'd expect there to some source of the field, i.e., a point of nonzero divergence!

You'll find that if you plug your field into that formula for the divergence, it is zero everywhere but has a value of 0/0 at the origin. In many texts, they give an argument for why that field's divergence should actually be a dirac delta function (i.e., there is an infinitely small region of nonzero, finite divergence at the origin.)
 
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Okey.But why don't you use the cartesian coordinates, why the spherical coordinates??and why masochism.
 
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Computing \nabla\cdot \vec g in spherical coordinates is easy. In spherical coordinates, the gravitational acceleration is

\vec g= -\frac {mG}{r^2}\hat r

Thus with the caveat that r\ne 0,

\nabla \cdot \vec g = \frac 1 {r^2} \frac {\partial}{\partial r}\left(r^2\left(-\frac {mG}{r^2}\right)\right) = \frac 1 {r^2} \frac {\partial }{\partial r}\left(-mG\right) = 0The masochism arises in computing it in cartesian coordinates. Try it.
 
D H said:
Computing \nabla\cdot \vec g in spherical coordinates is easy. In spherical coordinates, the gravitational acceleration is

\vec g= -\frac {mG}{r^2}\hat r

Thus with the caveat that r\ne 0,

\nabla \cdot \vec g = \frac 1 {r^2} \frac {\partial}{\partial r}\left(r^2\left(-\frac {mG}{r^2}\right)\right) = \frac 1 {r^2} \frac {\partial }{\partial r}\left(-mG\right) = 0


The masochism arises in computing it in cartesian coordinates. Try it.

But the divergence of gravitational acceleration could be -4\pi.GM isn't it.
 
coki2000 said:
But the divergence of gravitational acceleration could be -4\pi.GM isn't it.
You are thinking of the integral of the divergence over some volume,

\iiint_V \nabla \cdot \vec g \, dV = \oint_S \vec g \cdot d\vec S = -4\pi mG

This is why some write the divergence as a (three dimensional) delta function.
 
D H said:
You are thinking of the integral of the divergence over some volume,

\int_V \nabla \cdot \vec g \, dV = \oint_S \vec g \cdot d\vec S = -4\pi mG

This is why some write the divergence as a (three dimensional) delta function.

Thanks.Alright what is its proof that \int_V \nabla \cdot \vec g \, dV = \oint_S \vec g \cdot d\vec S = -4\pi mG? Do you explain to me?
 
The first equality is the divergence theorem. The second equality results from evaluating the surface integral.
 

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