Divergence Theorem on a surface without boundary

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the divergence theorem to surfaces without boundaries, exploring theoretical implications and specific cases in mathematical analysis and manifold theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the divergence theorem is typically derived for surfaces with boundaries and seeks to understand its application to surfaces without boundaries.
  • Another participant argues that there is always a boundary, which may be at infinity or cancel due to symmetry, suggesting that under certain conditions, the boundary integral can be replaced by another term.
  • A different perspective is presented, stating that in three-dimensional space, surfaces without edges, like spheres or tori, are boundaries of solids, although proving this is challenging.
  • One participant claims that on a manifold, surfaces can exist that are not boundaries of any solid, yet a divergence-free fluid can flow across them with non-zero total flux.
  • Another participant asserts that every manifold has a boundary, which could be empty, and that the divergence theorem holds in this case, leading to the conclusion that the integral over the boundary is zero.
  • This same participant connects the discussion to the residue theorem on compact Riemann surfaces, stating that the sum of residues is zero, which they consider a useful application of the theorem.
  • A later reply questions the need to excise disks around singularities when calculating residues, suggesting that this may imply integrating over a surface with boundaries.
  • One participant suggests that while the proof of the divergence theorem may involve surfaces with boundaries, the resulting statement can still apply to surfaces without boundaries.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and role of boundaries in relation to the divergence theorem. There is no consensus on whether the theorem can be applied to surfaces without boundaries without additional considerations.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the complexity of proving certain claims regarding surfaces and boundaries, as well as the implications of integrating over surfaces with or without boundaries. The discussion reflects various interpretations of the divergence theorem and its applications.

lmedin02
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Reading through Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds and some basic books in Analysis I notice that the divergence theorem is derived for surfaces or manifolds with boundary. I am trying to understand the case where I can apply the divergence theorem on a surface without boundary.
 
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There is always a boundary, it is an important part. The are times when the boundary (in whole or part) is at infinity, cancels due to symmetry, the function is constant, the integral is known, or some other situation; then the integral over the boundary might be replaced by some other term.
 
In 3 space every Surface that has no edges -e.g. a sphere or a torus - is the boundary of a solid. This is difficult to prove though.

On a manifold, one can have surfaces that are not boudaries of any solid but a divergence free fluid flows across them with non-zero total flux. For a one dimensional example take a circle on a torus that loops through the ring. The perpendicular flow has non-zero flux and is divergence free.
 
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i would answer your question by saying that every manifold has a boundary, but the boundary may be the empty set. hence on a manifold without boundary, i.e. with empty boundary, the theorem still holds, but one side, the integral over the boundary, is zero.

this yields the "residue" theorem on a compact riemann surface, i.e. for every meromorphic one form on a compact riemann surface, the sum of its residues, i.e. the integral over the boundary, is zero.

that is avery useful application of the theorem. (the divergence theorem is a version of green's theorem used here, or stokes thorem...)
 
mathwonk said:
i would answer your question by saying that every manifold has a boundary, but the boundary may be the empty set. hence on a manifold without boundary, i.e. with empty boundary, the theorem still holds, but one side, the integral over the boundary, is zero.

this yields the "residue" theorem on a compact riemann surface, i.e. for every meromorphic one form on a compact riemann surface, the sum of its residues, i.e. the integral over the boundary, is zero.

that is avery useful application of the theorem. (the divergence theorem is a version of green's theorem used here, or stokes thorem...)

This confuses me. To calculate the residues one needs to excise disks around the singularities of the meromorphic 1 form. One then integrates over a surface with a finite number if circles as its boundary. No?
 
it may be that the proof involves surfaces with boundary, but the resulting statement applies to surfaces without boundary.
 

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