Do both the oxide & oxygenless ammonia combine with bleach to make poison?

[ConsciousClarity]

Is it just that both versions: Hydrochloric acid [H+(aq) Cl−(aq) or H3O+ Cl−], also known as muriatic acid
Are always in solution? Or does only one or both combine with bleach to create that fatal poison?

 

[mjc123]

They are the same thing. There are no free protons in aqueous solution; they are always solvated, so they are H₃O⁺(aq), or more generally H(H₂O)_n⁺(aq). We often write H⁺(aq) for simplicity, but it must be remembered that H⁺(aq) is always solvated by water molecules.

And what's the reference to ammonia in the title?

 

[sysprog]

They are the same thing. There are no free protons in aqueous solution; they are always solvated, so they are H₃O⁺(aq), or more generally H(H₂O)_n⁺(aq). We often write H⁺(aq) for simplicity, but it must be remembered that H⁺(aq) is always solvated by water molecules.

And what's the reference to ammonia in the title?

As you are presumably aware, HCl is one of the interim products of mixing ammonia with bleach, and it further reacts with bleach to produce free chlorine gas $-$ https://sciencenotes.org/mixing-bleach-and-ammonia-heres-what-happens/

 

[DrJohn]

Also, muriatic acid is a name from antiquity. I have never in my rather long life heard any scientist use that name, nor any textbook. I think I heard it in the early 60s being referred to as an old name from a long time ago. It only appears in quiz shows as a question or books written for children by non- scientists. Why they do this just doesn't make sense to me. We are not alchemists! So stick to the correct name, hydrochloric acid.

Same for names like chlorate of soda and chlorate of lime from the 1820s. Or chlorate of potash or Berthollet's salt (1786, and described as a "well-known" alternative name for a particular chemical) - the latter gives you no idea as to what it is, does it? I suspect that perhaps these antique names are only used by those looking at the history of chemistry.

 

[Bystander]

nor any textbook

Still available in hardware stores; more an indication of low purity than "antiquated."

 

[DrJohn]

Should we start writing word equations like muriatic acid and caustic soda react giving halite and aqua, just because hardware stores use old names, or perhaps tell students to get some aqua fortis from the shelf, or pour into the flask some acid of sugar, don't drop those two cubits of vermillion on the floor, or forget the green vitriol and green verditer? How about burnt ochre or butter of antimony? We all know what oil of vitriol, halite, Chile saltpetre and cream of tartare are, of course, but do these names help a beginner learning chemistry? Tartaric acid isn't helpful either. Liver of sulfur threw me off balance, especially when the source said the real chemical name is sulfurated potash! Although I did do the crystals in water glass experiments as a child ;)

Names like these make chemistry seem like alchemy and some sort of incomprehensible magic spell, something that only the secret super-clever initiated ones can understand, and its not for ordinary students. We should stick to the standard names used by all scientists and standard textbooks. No teacher using the above names in a set of reactions in class would be facing an interview from the head of department.

 

[BillTre]

These, like baking soda, are names that have been preserved for long periods of time due to their existence in commerce, where no one cares about the subtleties of terminology.

 

[beyondenlightened]

Should we start writing word equations like muriatic acid and caustic soda react giving halite and aqua, just because hardware stores use old names, or perhaps tell students to get some aqua fortis from the shelf, or pour into the flask some acid of sugar, don't drop those two cubits of vermillion on the floor, or forget the green vitriol and green verditer? How about burnt ochre or butter of antimony? We all know what oil of vitriol, halite, Chile saltpetre and cream of tartare are, of course, but do these names help a beginner learning chemistry? Tartaric acid isn't helpful either. Liver of sulfur threw me off balance, especially when the source said the real chemical name is sulfurated potash! Although I did do the crystals in water glass experiments as a child ;)

Names like these make chemistry seem like alchemy and some sort of incomprehensible magic spell, something that only the secret super-clever initiated ones can understand, and its not for ordinary students. We should stick to the standard names used by all scientists and standard textbooks. No teacher using the above names in a set of reactions in class would be facing an interview from the head of department.

I am a normal uneducated person, and i still find this extremely funny. "don't spill that vermillion". Thank you for your input and for giving me a good laugh. I am going to continue perusing through this magical, mystical, wizardry here.

 

[Mayhem]

Also, muriatic acid is a name from antiquity. I have never in my rather long life heard any scientist use that name, nor any textbook. I think I heard it in the early 60s being referred to as an old name from a long time ago. It only appears in quiz shows as a question or books written for children by non- scientists. Why they do this just doesn't make sense to me. We are not alchemists! So stick to the correct name, hydrochloric acid.

Same for names like chlorate of soda and chlorate of lime from the 1820s. Or chlorate of potash or Berthollet's salt (1786, and described as a "well-known" alternative name for a particular chemical) - the latter gives you no idea as to what it is, does it? I suspect that perhaps these antique names are only used by those looking at the history of chemistry.

In my language, we call it "salt acid" (direct translation) and never refer to it as "hydrochloric acid" except in English writings. Might be partially cultural.

 

[symbolipoint]

Also, muriatic acid is a name from antiquity. I have never in my rather long life heard any scientist use that name, nor any textbook. I think I heard it in the early 60s being referred to as an old name from a long time ago. It only appears in quiz shows as a question or books written for children by non- scientists. Why they do this just doesn't make sense to me. We are not alchemists! So stick to the correct name, hydrochloric acid.

What either is or used to be, go to a hardware store you could find Muriatic Acid which was some ~20% Hydrochloric Acid.

 

[symbolipoint]

Should we start writing word equations like muriatic acid and caustic soda react giving halite and aqua, just because hardware stores use old names, or perhaps tell students to get some aqua fortis from the shelf, or pour into the flask some acid of sugar, don't drop those two cubits of vermillion on the floor, or forget the green vitriol and green verditer? How about burnt ochre or butter of antimony? We all know what oil of vitriol, halite, Chile saltpetre and cream of tartare are, of course, but do these names help a beginner learning chemistry? Tartaric acid isn't helpful either. Liver of sulfur threw me off balance, especially when the source said the real chemical name is sulfurated potash! Although I did do the crystals in water glass experiments as a child ;)

Names like these make chemistry seem like alchemy and some sort of incomprehensible magic spell, something that only the secret super-clever initiated ones can understand, and its not for ordinary students. We should stick to the standard names used by all scientists and standard textbooks. No teacher using the above names in a set of reactions in class would be facing an interview from the head of department.

What can be done? You want to argue with the hardware and retail companies?

 

[symbolipoint]

In my language, we call it "salt acid" (direct translation) and never refer to it as "hydrochloric acid" except in English writings. Might be partially cultural.

A very disagreeable language practice!

 

[Tom.G]

Some (slum) landlords use Muriatic Acid after a non-housekeeping tenant moves out. The acid is quite effective at removing the yellow/brown stains from the toilet bowl.

Rather hard on the cast iron plumbing, but that is in the future and irrelevant!

 

[snorkack]

Note that bleach, such as NaClO, is a poison to begin with. However, it is not initially a volatile poison. You need to spill or spray it into or onto body to get poisoned by it.
There are several ways to convert the non-volatile poison of NaClO into volatile poisons:
1) Any acid that is strong enough and in sufficient amount. Then you can get, like:
2NaClO+H₂SO₄=Cl₂O+Na₂SO₄+H₂O
2) Specifically HCl, or other acids if the bleach is already not pure NaClO but contains some NaCl impurity (as is common) or if that other acid or its impurities can react with NaClO to produce the NaCl:
NaClO+2HCl=NaCl+Cl₂+H₂O
NaClO+NaCl+H₂SO₄=Cl₂+Na₂SO₄+H₂O
This is comparatively easier because Cl₂ is less soluble in water than Cl₂O. You need less concentrated acid to produce Cl₂ than in the case only Cl₂O is possible.
3) Ammonia can produce at least three volatile poisons with bleach:
NaClO+NH₃=NaOH+NH₂Cl
3NaClO+NH₃=3NaOH+NCl₃
NaClO+2NH₃=NaCl+N₂H₄+H₂O
These reactions especially go ahead in pH range 8...11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monochloramine In pH below 8, you tend to get chlorine (which is also a volatile poison, just a different one, as shown above), in pH above 11, the bleach is somewhat less reactive. Ammonia itself is a volatile poison, too, but not as strong as Cl₂ or NH₂Cl
You also have some reaction:
3NaClO+2NH₃=3NaCl+N₂+3H₂O
with harmless products, but you tend to have a lot of the other reactions.